I’m not wrong. You just don’t understand the Ranks of Tier list and what they actually mean. A Tier is competitive and a very very strong build. It’s just not the very top End build. B tier is again a good build.
C tier has some strengths but now the weaknesses are glaring and you might not have fun because of them. Some content you can’t do. Then D tier is now close to the bottom of the barrel. It might have 1 gimmick but it’s a barely functioning build. Then of course F tier which no one wants to touch.
Now that you know what Tier list are. I’m happy to help you learn.
Yea cause that’s fun and they want the prize.
No I mean 99.99% of players. Only you are trying to inject this competitive player terminology. Non competitive players will google what is S tier in LE. Again this is a power progression game and they want to have fun. They aren’t competitive. They don’t want to do mechanics. These players don’t want a challenge. They don’t want hard mode and to be 1 shot because they stood in the thing or didn’t do the mechanic.
I told you I agree.
To be clear a competitive player will play a build that is bad aka a MEME build and see if they can do difficult content since they are competitive. They can do the mechanics and don’t mind them. They are competitive. Most players aren’t competitive.
So what you’re saying is that LE only has S, A and B tiers. Since every build can do all content.
Tier lists are always relative to the list itself. You gather all builds, then order them by order of best to worst.
Then how do you explain that there are lots of people playing weaker builds in PoE every single league? Way way more than 0.01% of players.
Many players have fun without needing an S tier build. It doesn’t need to be OP. For example, many players like minion army builds. They don’t care if they can push 2k corruption. They’re happy pushing 300c. Because the build is fun for their playstyle.
In fact, most players aren’t even aware that build x or y can push 10x or 100x more corruption. Most players don’t even look at the leaderboards. Most players don’t come to the forums. They just play.
You are right on this point. In this genre the power of the build is the main focus. This isn’t some story role playing game. No one is playing LE because of the story or a build to see the campaign. Players are playing gear based games because of…The GEAR!! Then powerful builds too get more Gear faster.
That’s why you are playing it. Most players play ARPGs to have fun with the combat and interacting.
Your ultimate goal is to get the best items possible. For most players, the ultimate goal is to have fun killing stuff. Everything that extends that is a bonus.
I’m not saying that you aren’t listening. Here is a list from someone else I agree with the premise.
Yes and 300 C by LE standards is a failed build compared to actual builds. It never pushed corruption or got to the End Game which is decided by the players. It never pushed 1,000s of waves of Arena.
No one is going to google please show me a build that can do 300 corruption. Players don’t want to play that. They will play 1,000+ corruption builds that are actually strong.
It’s a challenge to play a bad build aka MEME build and see if you can make it work or discover something someone else missed making it powerful. These are usually competitive players and they are doing this on an Alt as a challenge or for content cause they are professional gamers.
Theorycrafting builds is a huge draw in power progression build games. It’s exciting when you uncover a hidden mechanic or different synergy no one thought of. Again this isn’t for most players though and this is done on Alts.
Think you are underestimating the internet and players time. Most people will shop builds before going right in so that way they have a good time with what in many cases little spare time they have.
So it’s in their best interest to look up build guides, google S tier so their first experience is fun and easy. That way they have a powerful character to get the loot and farm for other experiences. It’s that simple.
My personal corruption scale/tier list is just my opinion though. Just through my own lens.
Your view is valid but a lot of the things you’re saying are sweeping generalizations for a game where there are so many ways to enjoy it. A lot of the things you’re saying, only speaks for yourself.
Here’s an example. Maybe that’s what you’re googling, but not everybody is trying to play the most powerful builds. A lot of the most viewed build showcase videos, the player isn’t even at 200 corruption let alone 1000.
You’d be surprised how many people only care about doing the campaign, maaaybe getting to Empowered and that’s it.
No they’re right. You assume that because you frequent the forums, look up powerful builds, etc… That most other players must be the same way.
Most players playing this game probably don’t even know what a “meta” is.
I think a lot of players have jobs, families and want to log in and have a good time. So in their spare time they don’t want to get 1 shot or stuck on Lagon on their first character. They will take the time too look up a build that is powerful since they are new and want the time they have playing a game to be “relaxing” and “fun”.
Then after they understand the game, farmed some gear for other characters they might branch out. However most players in these types of game are chasing power, ease of farming and blasting end game. They want to look at the mobs and they explode.
It’s your opinion but the premise is what matters. People could make other Tier list and it will look similar cause the outline is good. You might switch some words around or have an opinion on rankings. However you have to list 300 - 5k+ corruption. So the Tier list is good and I agree with it’s premise.
In this genre? I don’t agree. Maybe for non gear based role playing games where power doesn’t matter or games where entering blind is totally okay. I just don’t think that applies here where the character selection screen dictates fun. The choice matters. So players will take the time to make the right choice cause their free time matters.
It does. But some players will look up builds that are the most powerful. Others will look up builds that are the most fun. Usually people with little time don’t care if a build will reach 5k corruption because they won’t have time to play it enough to reach that point anyway.
Most players will search for builds that fit their playstyles. Minion fans will search for minion builds. If they have an option between a minion build that does 300c and a minion build that does 1k and both seem fun, they’ll choose the latter, but if they have a choice between a minion build that does 300c and a melee build that does 5k, they will choose the former.
Same applies for any other build archetype. Someone that exclusively enjoys melee builds will only search for melee builds, even if they’re all outpaced by ranged ones. As long as the combat feels fun to them.
Because to them it’s all about having fun fighting stuff in the game. That is the only objective. They don’t care if Julra dies in 1s if they have to use a build with a playstyle they don’t enjoy. Most players play ARPGs to have fun in combat killing stuff. Not to reach number X on whatever.
If people are so bound by time that they feel like they have to optimize every minute of it, why do they even bother playing the game? They can just watch their favorite Youtube persona clear 500 corruption and get the feel of what a build looks like. If the point of playing the game is to completely ignore the mechanics, why have a dev team bother with the mechanics in the first place (there is an endgame mode where there are practically no mechanics, it’s called the arena, and most of the feedback about it is that it’s boring, so I don’t understand what anyone actually wants)? If people are so driven by time that they won’t think for themselves and only play what the “meta” tells them to play, why bother playing in the first place when all you’re doing is making a copy of someone else’s work? It’s like spending 20 hours working on a painting that you already have up on the wall in your bedroom.
Thankfully, the game is NOT designed around that, and the dev team has done a good job with their world-building, combat flow, character skill lay-out, and enemy design, where people actually enjoy the process of leveling up and getting their gear. In my opinion, the game’s equipment progression is nice, where on even higher-level characters, I am getting good upgrades (either through exalteds or having the right affixes match the right base, which is much harder than it initially looks) even running normal monos and T2 dungeons. Unfortunately, too many people are just focused on “give me something that works so I don’t have to think about it” so that people like me, who do like thinking through things, can’t find good guides on what builds need in terms of defensive layers and offensive multipliers to survive 300 corruption, much less 1,000.
There’s a reason the saying “people will optimize the fun out of everything” will withstand the halls of time. Anything that’s not “meta” is a noob-trap, maliciously designed to give people the illusion of variety and laughing at players who actually want to try specific combos and interactions, only for those to be woefully inadequate compared to “pick this specific line and pretend everything else doesn’t exist.” Thankfully, people who actually like this game and aren’t meta-slaves will actually provide helpful feedback so they aren’t contingent on whether the devs woke up on the right side of the bed and decide that their favorite class actually gets buffed so they don’t have to spend the next few months playing a failure because the company doesn’t know what good design is.
That’s actually a good question that leads to a much larger problem in the gaming industry.
Short answer people are conditioned to do this.
Why do players download Addon in WoW that tells them when to move out of a mechanic or where to go for a quest? It’s now considered the very basic requirement for the game and if you don’t do this you are playing the game wrong. You aren’t allowed in groups if you don’t do this. So players are conditioned to be this level of efficient as a basic requirement.
Perhaps. However they will want a Main that can play the game and do 1,000+ corruption.
I just put out my minion cold archer zoo build. Like I said before I have builds in 1k+ and now I’m trying to theorycraft new mechanics and synergy with other underplayed builds. This build is extremely fun but I do believe it can be a strong build due to a mechanic. You at the end of the day do want a “certain level of power” or the game just isn’t going to be fun.
I don’t get why you’re being so adamant on representing everyone in the LE community, everyone plays for different reasons.
I will agree that tiers do mean something, and they essentially rank builds on how “strong” in terms of damage and defenses, etc, BUT you don’t need a certain tier build to push corruption, all you really need is just defense, sure it’ll take you awake to kill something but you don’t NEED an S tier build to push 1000+c lol
I disagree. If you step outside the ARPG genre, then the corollary to this would be that everyone looks up walkthroughs before playing any game, so they could maximize their efficiency.
And while it’s true that some people do, most people don’t. Because most people just want to enjoy the game and have fun playing it. Especially when they don’t have much available time to play. Because time searching things is time taken away from their time to play.
Yes. But for most players “a certain level of power” is simply doing endgame. Even if all builds could push 5k corruption, most players still wouldn’t because it takes too long.
In fact, many players consider the game finished when they finish the campaign. I saw this a lot on PoE and D4.
Pushing 1k+, getting BiS gear, etc, is something only a few players care about. Most players don’t.
It’s like achievements. Some players will want to 100% all achievements and will pursue optimal tactics to do so. The vast VAST majority of players don’t care about it. They just play the game and whichever achievements they happen to get they’re happy with.
This doesn’t make sense. If you don’t have much time to play why wouldn’t you look up builds or search what you want to play? That saves so much time instead of starting a build wasting many hours on it then re-rolling or making mistakes wasting again more time.
Measure twice, cut once.
In the information era this is the norm for games.
Right and a lot of builds or players playing those builds aren’t going to beat T3 - T4 julra and be hard stuck. They now either need a carry or need to re-roll a good build to have access to the End Game.
When I went to craft my 3LP Frozen Eyes ammy I didn’t do it on my Necro I logged into my HH/Divine bolt pally and just tanked and spanked. Then stashed the item.
Players are going to want a “Main” that has access too top end crafting and doing higher corruption for faster loot farming for Alts. They just are. Sure they might not push 1k corruption which takes too long. Hopefully they can get us too 1k corruption in an hour in the future if they don’t rework it. However they are going to want to push “Some” corruption and 300 C isn’t even pushing yet.
I mean I am Abomb The People’s Champ. However I’m not sure where I was representing everyone but just stating objective views based in facts.
Good.
Then the build is S tier because of it’s OP defense. Which is desireable since most players don’t like dying at all. I’m one of them. If i have to get out of the way of mechanics that’s just annoying and means my build sucks.
Because many players only have 1-2h to play every now and then. If they spend 1-2h searching, they won’t play at all that day. So they’d rather simply jump into the game and have fun.
Also, most players want to enjoy the game as is presented to them. They don’t want to optimize it. Not even RPGs. They just want to jump and make their own decisions.
If a game is as complex as PoE, they might search for builds. Or they might just quit after an hour.
If a game is simpler like LE, they might play until they hit a wall. And then they might search for something. Or they might just quit.
The vast majority of players don’t care about LP gear. They want baseline gear that makes their build function and let’s them kill stuff. 3LP gear is BiS chasing and only a small minority will go after them. Like corrupted gear in PoE. The vast majority of players won’t have one and simply have a normal unique instead, because that’s good enough.
The majority of players won’t even go past 100C.
The way you play isn’t the way the majority plays. I know because I was like that in PoE once (was even in a clan). But for the majority of players, that mentality makes the game feel like a job rather than a fun game. It’s not the way they think. The majority of players will simply play while they’re having fun until they hit a wall and either try something else or stop playing.
So you are saying it’s better to just jump in waste weeks of playing because they didn’t take 1-2 hours first searching? That literally makes no sense. Why would anyone with limited time want to waste 10, 20 or more hours finding out they made mistakes or picked the wrong build when they could of searched before hand and prevented that!
Again measure twice, cut once. If you have limited time fixing mistakes takes waaaaay longer. This is also why people quit PoE! They go in somewhat blind brick their build and they quit the game! Cause they wasted their time and don’t want to re-roll. Granted PoE is a game where you definitely have to search first more so than LE.
LP gear is build enabling and a requirement in this game. Not only that Legendary crafting is a core feature and staple of LE. You are going to craft 100’s of Legendary items. You are just waaaaaay off base here.
I’d actually like to know some statistics from Devs it would be interesting. If you don’t go past 100 C then you never really played the game. You didn’t farm blessings, you didn’t do dungeons, Arena or farm for loot to finish a build.
My new Alt is farming empowered now and blessings. The game has just begun for that character.
This is one of those cases where the passive voice is just egregiously irritating. Here’s what the statement should be:
“Meta-slaves are conditioning everyone they play with to only play with highly efficient meta builds or don’t bother wasting their time.” I can understand some degree of outside efficiency that’s not already present in the game needed to make a game fun and not frustrating, but in my opinion, that only works if the gameplay loop is solid and enjoyable. Present interesting and unique concepts and I will go through the hoops necessary to maximize my enjoyment.
Then again, I’m not an MMO player, so the idea that 24 players have to be in perfect unison or the dangerous mob wipes out hours of progress for everyone is torture. I understand it conceptually, but it sounds like it’s guaranteed to bring out the worst in people.
One other note related to all this: I am very grateful that this game has both: an offline mode, because I don’t care about the opinions of other people telling me “I’m doing my build wrong,” and a generous respec system, where it takes roughly an hour to get your skills online if you’re doing everything from scratch and you’re at a high enough level. The whole point of a good game is to experiment with things, figure out what kind of fantasy you like, and get the joy of figuring out how to beat tough mechanics on your own instead of just following what someone else told them to do. I mean, there’s a whole genre of games centered around being a challenging experience that gives the players just enough tools to get that jump of joy once they finally figured it out. If everyone just “optimized” their playthoughs to the point where nothing’s a challenge, the whole genre would be completely obsolete.
Because to those people, they didn’t waste time. They had fun for 10-20h. If they found they made mistakes, they simply start over or move to another game.
That’s the mentality of most players, especially when you have literally hundreds of thousands of games available.
Not to mention that in LE they can undo most of those mistakes as long as they remain in the same mastery.
LP gear is necessary for exactly 0 builds. Every single build can function with 0LP. Even recently I posted a video of the build everyone says that “needs” LP gear, frost claw, where they used everything with 0LP and still pushed over 1k corruption.
Not only is LP gear not needed, the vast majority of players won’t even craft a single legendary.
Just check steam achievements for PoE, D4 or any other ARPG and see that most people don’t play endgame.
That’s the most wild thing I heard in awhile. Not crafting a Legendary item is like not finishing the campaign. It’s a core basic feature and reason to play LE. If you never crafted an LP item you just haven’t played the game yet.
This is wildly not true and the 2nd most crazy thing anyone has said. I don’t think I can take anything you say seriously anymore.
ARPGs are created to be enjoyed with a variety of playstyles.
-Some people want to use the least amount of brain power when playing, others want to have elaborate spreadsheets and planning.
-Some people want to push the bleeding edge of their characters capacity, others want to a comfy and braindead easy experience.
-Some people want to copy and play the most powerful and proven build, others want to make up their own build or play their pet build even if it sucks.
-Some people primarily see content as a means to get loot, others see loot as a means to do content.
-We have options for MG vs CoF, Hardcore vs Softcore, Seasonal or Eternal, etc…
So I don’t get why people act like their own combination of personal preferences are the purest way to play the game, and make sweeping generalizations for everyone based on their own preferences. Or make little disparaging remarks about people who may have a different approach to this game like they’re wrong or flawed somehow for playing the way that they do.
