now consider that this is only done due to pre-defined social norms rather than a desire of either of us continuing the conversation. Just because I say “Hi” to my server doesn’t make it a social interaction. The purpose is the transaction, not socialization.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in England, isn’t it considered very rude to walk by someone and not greet them, even if they’re a perfect stranger? Saying “good morning” to someone simply to meet a random expectation isn’t socializing. If you asked someone how their day was and that spared an ACTUAL conversation, THEN it becomes socializing.
That’s because most people don’t agree with your intent. Most people don’t trade to socialize. They trade because they Gasp want the transaction.
I socialize with the people in my clan/discord/chat, and occasionally with those I trade with. You don’t need to make trading social because there are already MULTIPLE ways to be social in the game.
I didn’t say auction house. I said “item list”.
For example, the “Bazaar” idea (which was scrapped) counts as an item list.
I have proven that you CAN design a social-less trading system. Therefore, I have proven Trade, in and of itself, isn’t social. I have also gotten you to admit, in your own words, that you have to INJECT socialization into Trading to make it social.
The point is that trade remains social and does not become automated with auction-house styled systems… this has been the main point of my argument and it has been stretched into a foolish argument regarding pedantic cultural facts and semantic details that are irrelevant to this point.
Trade is social, whether or not it is to the extent that you want/don’t want it to be.
Social norms are imposed by society, which is a group of people, and probably where you’re definition of “social” is coming from.
My definition (and the one that most people have in mind when making this distinction) is “the desire to interact in a way beyond simply completing the transaction”.
Saying hi to a stranger isn’t socializing to many people. It’s being polite, or more accurately, not being rude. Oddly enough, there are parts of the US where saying hi to a stranger IS considered rude, or at the very least extremely off-putting.
Most people that enter into a trade agreement want to complete the transaction and move on. This limits “social” interaction. I can even grant you that it IS technically a social interaction, if you’re willing to grant that the level of ACTUAL socialization in most trades is near zero.
The argument is and has always been that auction houses and the bazaar item list (which is just a micro auction house, but nice try) should not be the implemented systems.
I have already agreed that there can be forms of trade that are not social (please read and construct more appropriate feedback), but these systems should not be implemented.
Even by your definition of social, whether or not you choose to utilize socialization into a trade system, there are individuals who want a system that offers the chance to be social when trading.
People can choose not to socialize (by your definition), but denying others the enjoyment of creating potential social connections ultimately fails the core intentions of a multiplayer game - resulting in (like I had originally posted) a single-player game with minor, arbitrary multiplayer elements.
I would prefer if trade were limited to those I already socialize with. I don’t want a game to force socializing. Encourage it? Sure. Require it? Not in this day. I loved FFXI when it required a group to play, but I also spent more hours than I can count simply trying to build groups for various activities.
If people want to socialize, the game should be designed in a way that they can do so. I’m hoping clans and/or guilds, chat channels, etc will cover this. If not, I’ll still use discord to socialize with those I choose to socialize with.
If people want to NOT socialize, they should also have that choice.
I’m not trying to deny your version of socializing. This can be covered with a trade channel or dedicated zone for trading. Or even a discord channel. It doesn’t have to be forced upon everyone for every single trade.
You should be able to socialize while trading if you want to.
I should not be forced to socialize with everyone I trade with.
In a perfect world, I should be able to trade with those I want to socialize (group) with (party trading, which I believe they have already stated they plan to implement.)
All I want is to be able to trade with my friends. Restricting our ability to trade ONLY while in-party or in-instance is going to restrict the amount of time that we have to play (organizing around everyone’s schedules). Furthermore, if trade is restricted to auction house / random bazaar market item lists, this will not be suitable.
In my own opinion, based on my personal interests and the interests of my group, if the game goes for any of those routes where I cannot directly trade with my friends, I will have to write this game off.
In another thread I talked about how I would literally be willing to pay a premium for each of my friends to enable trading between us if it means that it can happen. I do not want another solo ARPG. This game has the potential to be better.
I am tired from this arguing. So pointless. So wasteful.
I don’t see it as arguing, more as discussing the different way we see things and the different things we are hoping for in the game.
I also want to be able to trade with my friends, but I don’t see a way of implementing that without opening free trade to everyone. I tossed out an idea in an earlier thread that certain low level or very common items should be tradeable to anyone, but I don’t think it’s very likely that a system like that would be implemented.
With party trade, I’ll be gaming with my friends and trading with my friends. We might not be able to trade ALL THE TIME, but if that keeps RMT out of the game, I’m willing to accept that middle ground.
I guess paying a one time fee for a limited “trade list” wouldn’t be much different than some games limiting your Auction House postings unless you pay a subscription or fee. If they do this in increments of 5 people or so, I might be willing to pay that, and the fee might keep RMT sites from being able to sell to too many people.
I’m not sure why limiting trade to in-party would limit your playtime. Yes, you would have to schedule time to play together, but that’s how most multiplayer games work. My group is planning to have a set of characters that we play together, and then others that we play when the group isn’t on. I’m not sure if that will work, but either way, we’ll be gaming & trading together, so I’m not too worried about it. I just don’t want websites selling items or currency like they do in other ARPGs. I’m willing to accept some restrictions to keep that from happening.
Obviously, if they could come up with a way to let us trade with our friends AND keep out RMT, that would be amazing, but I’m not sure if that’s possible.
The “In-Party, In-Instance” free trading proposed by EHG already
The replacement for the Bazaar, but only if:
– it does not affect Drop Rates one iota
– it does not allow RMT
– it does not allow price flipping/market manipulation of item prices
– it does not allow the trade of the absolutely most powerful (aka “best”) items in the game (they should be found by killing things)
Easy. The interrogator torturing a victim. Interrogator is directly interacting with the victim, causing pain, asking questions until he gets answers. Both parties exchange words.
Being tortured is not what I would call “social” but it falls within your definition.
Imho, English is not always about pure grammatical definition from a dictionary, it also requires context. If you’re too literal with language, it can always do a 360 & bit you in the bum
