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0.8.5 on the Horizon | Development Update January 2022

This is what was posted in the FAQ, and it’s fair that Mike wants to update it. But let’s not pretend it wasn’t posted and said by EHG.

I understand now. You switched better items in text to best items in your head.

That’s just how English works.

“not the clear best way to obtain better items”
“not the clear best way to obtain the best items”

Exact same meaning in English.

OK, can´t argue there as non-native speaker but I still don´t see “best items will not be tradable” in that sentence.

Well, its moot now, per Mike’s post, so we’ll have to see what they come up with and post up next.

We did just update it but I want to be very clear here because I don’t think I’m being heard.

“We want the main item hunt to remain outside of trade so making this an enjoyable experience but not the clear best way to obtain better items is our goal”

does not mean

“the best items won’t be tradable”.

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Actually it is how english works, and why we have so many words.

Good, Better, Best
Fun, Viable, Optimal
Required, Encouraged, allowed.

The words mean different things, and ignoring that is just silly.

I’d also like to point out that I responded to your whole logic of “adding trade means lowered drop rates” saying that I don’t follow this logic, and you apparently ignored it, so I’ll paraphrase.

They don’t need to nerf any drop rates simply because they’re adding trade.

If a rare item has a .000000001% chance to drop, adding trade won’t increase the amount of items dropped. If the item is powerful and desired, then people that find it will want to USE it and not sell it. In this case, trade doesn’t necessarily make it easier for a player to get that item. This item will be valuable and still rare, because the supply will be lower than demand.

If it’s rare and powerful but only useful for a few builds, then it will get funneled to those builds, and the trader will want something equally powerful (and assumedly equally rare) in exchange. This item might be expensive, but supply will probably be higher than demand (depending on how popular the builds that require the item are). In this case, both players get an item they value or want, but drop rates haven’t decreased.

If it’s rare and not useful at all, then no one wants it, so its irrelevant.

The thing that drives drop rates down is RMT. I believe we had a conversation about the way trade and an AH could be set up that covers this topic, and we mostly agreed here. If the trade is set up specifically so that RMT can’t thrive, then drop rates don’t have to be adjusted at all.

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You do underestimate, that a lot of people will only play a very limited amount of builds/characters.

So a lot of those rare items will only drop for people that will not use them, which will make them avaialble on the market.

Even the most powerful items in any game will always be traded, if possible.

Blockquote
Even the most powerful items in any game will always be traded, if possible.

This is absolutely true. But this doesn’t actually mean MORE of the items drop. If the number of items that drop is less than the number of people that want the item, it’s still rare.

I suppose I should add that for me specifically, I’m speaking from a mindset with Hardcore in mind. When a player dies using that powerful item, it’s gone from the HC league/section of the game. I suppose this might actually overpopulate the non-hardcore sector with the items though.

Not all of them. Someone store them in stash or even sell them to NPC.

Yes they do, since that’s what always happens. As Heavy said, no matter how small of a chance for 1 specific player to get that 1 specific rare item, once you scale the game to online numbers (100,000 players or more), you will see dozens if not 100s of that so-called “rare” item for sale/trade. And the second that happens, the drop rate gets nerfed.

Regardless, if EHG wants killing monsters to be the “best” way to get rare items, then it’s up to them to figure out what new system they want to release such that it doesn’t affect drop rates.

This is also from the same Multiplayer FAQ I quoted above:

Emphasis mine.

I literally said a lot of those.

Yes there will be collectors, yes there will be people stashing them away possible not even knowing they found a treasure.

But in games like these, where the overwhelming mindset sadly is: Play as efficient as possible, people will not use those items their own, or maybe just test them, but then sell them to the 1%, who actively searches for them.
This way they make good profit and they can fund their builds.

We will have to see how trading will work, which items will be tradeable and if the economy will work in such a way, that one item drop, could give you enough wealth, to completely fund a new build or the rest of your equipment. (Which i strongly hope will not work)

I am talking about those “once In a lifetime” Items, that nobody even is planning around getting, which currently onyl exist partially in LE.

The current equivalent of this in LE would be a 2-4 LP Ravenous Void, Orain’s Eye, Wings Of Argentus or Omnis. Or Double T7 Prefix Weapons with synergistic afffix/base combination.

All that I said, obviously can be downscaled a little bit for “more reasonable” items, that are still worth a lot for a lot of players.

So, by failing, you mean being top of the class for 8 years and becoming an household name with millions of users?
I believe a lot of developpers would love to fail that way.

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I bet you think Windows is a great software product/operating system because so many people use it.

Quality of Product != Popularity of Product

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Oh, I could buy you a gift right now.

That reply actually made me laugh out loud, and that doesn’t happen often. Genius, old chap, genius :smile:

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I was torn between that and a McDonalds analogy.

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It is hard to think of either Microsoft or McDonalds as companies that “failed”. They both seem rather successful by any standard. This has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the product.
If you use common words in a sense that only you understands, communication becomes tricky…

The irony is that on the trade front, I tend to agree with you (although I don’t really care either way, I would still enjoy the game with or without trade and probably play mostly SSF anyway).

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I guess that’s a fair point. A failed game design, not a failed marketing & sales model. (Or failed operating system design, or failed food quality & nutrition).

But POE fails for more than just its trade system. It is a bloated, chaotic mess as well.

I can agree with the “Mcdonaldization” of Path of Exile. It is marketed in a way that is exploitative because of the free to play model - gambling for cosmetics? Horrific.

However, your analogy regarding Microsoft Windows proves why Path of Exile is so successful - they are both easy to use and, for the most part, intuitive - while both having their own flaws, of course.

Path of Exile, at its very core, is a fundamentally well structured game. Path of Exile’s basic controls are smooth and responsive and the way the story is tied into gameplay is serviceable.

The problem comes with the constant addition of new, cancerous cysts that are added every league. New arbitrary mechanics and systems that do not interact with the others - new currencies that can only be spent in specific ways. The game has become, as you said, a bloated and chaotic mess. However, it remains, at its core, a good game.

In my opinion, Path of Exile had some great expansions. I think Ascendency was the last good one that I participated in. Ascendency added intuitive features to the base game; specializations for each of the classes that added more unique player agency. While most of the other expansions added alternative ways to get different gear, each outclassing the other in purposeful power-creep.

It’s one of the reasons they need to release Path of Exile 2; the pursuit of power-creep has made the game inaccessible to the majority of casual-to-moderate players. They need to trim content and learn from their mistakes.

Oh, boy, not sure what you think is “easy to use”, but all the gem stuff and how all the mechanics interact, is far from intuitive, even for veterans of the genre, if they enter the game blind.

Is a fast-loading, fast-paced game, seems has nothing to do with the genre, but that is one of the keys to get a greater reach.

Random idea for trade without too many specifics:

  • Lower the drop rate about 12-15%.
  • You can start specifically with SSF tag, and while on SSF you will get 12-15% boosted item drop/rarity.
  • You can switch to trade, but of course the moment you do so, you lose the boosted items perk (seems fair to me, as you are progressing without the benefits of trade until you do the switch).
  • Also, you cannot trade items that have been forged (you mark them as soon as you manipulate them with forge), so no legendaries/crafted items.