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0.8.5 on the Horizon | Development Update January 2022

So you know that there will be trading :smiley:

There will be in-party trading of any item (that was already announced, and this thread didn’t mention removing it).

There was supposed to be a Bazaar, where only some items (not the best items) would be randomly shown for sale. That was the previous way EHG was going to do the second part of trading. That was rescinded in this thread.

EHG is now working on a different method of limited trading to replace the Bazaar idea. But it will still not be open trading, and it will still not allow the trade of the best items. So, there will be no “Trade Economy”, and no nerf to drop rates as a result of trade. Players who “like trading” will leave Last Epoch as a result, and the game will remain a great game.

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I know that informations as I read them before your post. Your last paragraph is only your speculation because you don´t know what will be replacing Bazaar or how they changed their view on trading. For info: I will be happy if there will be at least party trading so I don´t know who you try to convince there with your “truth”.

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If you were reading everything, then you would have read that I couldn’t care less if there is some form of trading which doesn’t affect drop rates. I only care about open trading, as that always affects drop rates, which is unacceptable to me (and apparently, to EHG, since they have said that the best items will not be tradable).

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Source for a definitive statement? Because I don’t think they actually said that.

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scroll down to the Loot section:

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Sorry for the misunderstanding, that doesn’t mean “the best items won’t be tradable”.

Restricting which items can be traded and/or how many times they can be traded is something I have said on stream we are looking at as an option but I don’t think we have said it’s happening for sure.

We also do need to update that post a bit in general as it does still reference the bazaar.

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If you implement open trade of the best items, then the game will fail like PoE, D3, etc. because open trade of top items = RMT = nerfed drop rates for legit players = legit players leaving the game. It has happened in every game with open trade.

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I don’t think we have given any indication that was the plan.

I just want to be clear that saying that we didn’t say something doesn’t mean that we are saying the opposite is true or that the thing we didn’t say isn’t the plan. Saying that we didn’t say something doesn’t add new information.

It’s totally fine to have opinions on what you would wouldn’t like to see. I actually really appreciate posts where people lay out what they would and wouldn’t like in a trade system. All I ask is that you don’t make assumptions as to what we are planning.

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If I were Judd, I honestly won’t mind my game “failing” as hard as POE :stuck_out_tongue:

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Extremely true. And many, many people seem strictly unable to understand this!

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This is what was posted in the FAQ, and it’s fair that Mike wants to update it. But let’s not pretend it wasn’t posted and said by EHG.

I understand now. You switched better items in text to best items in your head.

That’s just how English works.

“not the clear best way to obtain better items”
“not the clear best way to obtain the best items”

Exact same meaning in English.

OK, can´t argue there as non-native speaker but I still don´t see “best items will not be tradable” in that sentence.

Well, its moot now, per Mike’s post, so we’ll have to see what they come up with and post up next.

We did just update it but I want to be very clear here because I don’t think I’m being heard.

“We want the main item hunt to remain outside of trade so making this an enjoyable experience but not the clear best way to obtain better items is our goal”

does not mean

“the best items won’t be tradable”.

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Actually it is how english works, and why we have so many words.

Good, Better, Best
Fun, Viable, Optimal
Required, Encouraged, allowed.

The words mean different things, and ignoring that is just silly.

I’d also like to point out that I responded to your whole logic of “adding trade means lowered drop rates” saying that I don’t follow this logic, and you apparently ignored it, so I’ll paraphrase.

They don’t need to nerf any drop rates simply because they’re adding trade.

If a rare item has a .000000001% chance to drop, adding trade won’t increase the amount of items dropped. If the item is powerful and desired, then people that find it will want to USE it and not sell it. In this case, trade doesn’t necessarily make it easier for a player to get that item. This item will be valuable and still rare, because the supply will be lower than demand.

If it’s rare and powerful but only useful for a few builds, then it will get funneled to those builds, and the trader will want something equally powerful (and assumedly equally rare) in exchange. This item might be expensive, but supply will probably be higher than demand (depending on how popular the builds that require the item are). In this case, both players get an item they value or want, but drop rates haven’t decreased.

If it’s rare and not useful at all, then no one wants it, so its irrelevant.

The thing that drives drop rates down is RMT. I believe we had a conversation about the way trade and an AH could be set up that covers this topic, and we mostly agreed here. If the trade is set up specifically so that RMT can’t thrive, then drop rates don’t have to be adjusted at all.

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You do underestimate, that a lot of people will only play a very limited amount of builds/characters.

So a lot of those rare items will only drop for people that will not use them, which will make them avaialble on the market.

Even the most powerful items in any game will always be traded, if possible.

Blockquote
Even the most powerful items in any game will always be traded, if possible.

This is absolutely true. But this doesn’t actually mean MORE of the items drop. If the number of items that drop is less than the number of people that want the item, it’s still rare.

I suppose I should add that for me specifically, I’m speaking from a mindset with Hardcore in mind. When a player dies using that powerful item, it’s gone from the HC league/section of the game. I suppose this might actually overpopulate the non-hardcore sector with the items though.