Why I've quit the game

First things first, this is me explaining my personal experience and the reasoning behind me quitting the game. I think LE is fantastic at it’s core, and I’m not saying this to try and convince people of anything different. My only goal here is to provide my feedback.

The tldr of this is that in my opinion ehg is making some of the most confusing and short-sighted balance decisions I’ve ever seen and many of them have had extremely negative impacts on the way I play the game. At least in my eyes, ehg has a nasty habit of prematurely ripping off bandaids and doing nothing whatsoever to address the issues created.

I’ve been playing this game for quite a while, I’m easily over two-thousand hours deep. The activity that kept me playing so long up to now has been corruption pushing. I’ve taken dozens of characters well past 1000 corruption. When you get that high the monolith system sorta falls apart. You start getting modifiers that say things like “void enemies deal 900% increased damage” which is… kinda absurd. The issues with monolith modifiers as the primary difficulty scaling mechanism at high corruption are widely talked about so I’m not going to go into everything here. Something very noteworthy though is that enemies scale their damage from modifiers far, far, far faster than they scale their defenses.

Hands down the most important thing to have on a corruption pusher is defense, however the current state of the game makes it so your overall defensive power is pretty much entirely determined by your choice of mastery. In this game we have 6 layers through which we can scale offense and every single one of those layers (except cooldown for some unfathomable reason) is a prefix. When builds are scaling damage they are weighing options between the various layers and this is overall quite healthy and feels good to do even with just exalted bases. For scaling defenses though, this simply does not occur. because we don’t have any real spare suffixes because the required stat taxes (resists and crit avoid) are all on suffixes. Getting those 2 things capped is not usually a difficult issue but in the majority of builds you have maybe 3-4 suffixes free to attempt to invest into other layers of defense whereas those same builds have nearly every single prefix free to scale damage in whatever way they want. Because of how the modpools are set up we don’t even have any way to sacrifice offense to get more defense outside of blessings and a bit of flat health from vitality prefix.

What this all ends up meaning is that we get pretty much all of our defensive layers from our mastery choice. This is a huge issue because defense is the bottleneck in high corruption, but we have no way to invest into it and instead we just need to pick masteries that offer sufficient innate defenses (paladin and bladedancer come to mind here). Luckily though, in 0.8.5 we had the bandaid to end all bandaids to deal with this issue, bastion of honour. With bastion you could pick any mastery and still be able to scale your defenses to a point where high end content is playable. This is of course no longer the case (the bastion nerf crippled the item for this use case, at a distance of 6 it was possible to react to incoming projectiles that you knew would oneshot you even through the block. At a distance of 4 it simply is not possible to react, especially with added server latency)

In essence, the bastion change means that all builds now take 66% more damage from enemies. The only builds exempt from this are ones that are capable of getting block capped in other ways (paladin, druid, and bladedancer with face of the mountain and corsair set). Remember that defenses work in layers just like offenses. Deciding to not get block capped is the same as deciding you are not going to get any penetration on your build.

The obvious answer to this is simply to drop down and run lower corruption content. However, remember that we have tons of space to invest into damage and thus it wasn’t a huge issue getting enough damage to do high corruption. At lower corruption you don’t even need to invest into damage on gear to get acceptable results which takes away that feeling of progression that is so central to the genre. So effectively, the current state of the game has become: you pick paladin/bd/druid and get to keep pushing corruption or you pick any other mastery and are not allowed to push corruption. As someone who derived all their enjoyment in the game from corruption pushing this is a pretty big problem to me.

To be totally clear, bastion was too good. It did need a nerf, however it did not to be removed from the game like this. A simple addition of “50% reduced block effectiveness” to the shield would have been sufficient without totally crippling the ability to scale defense on the majority of builds. Or, if they really were dead set on killing the item, they maybe could have considered actually solving the problem of defensive investment not existing in the game when they removed the tool allowed most masteries to even participate in corruption pushing.

To add insult to injury they then nerf movement, the tool that allows players to push that little bit further through skilled play, and make the affix to unnerf it a suffix and thus actively conflict with the little bit of room we had to get a bit of defense.

So that is the big reason for me leaving, but these same types of issues are happening all over the place. The ailment rework heavily impacted electrify builds to the point of making them very difficult to scale, and damned builds (you know, the one damned build, the one using a combination of uniques added as boss drops from the same dungeon specifically to let the ailment work) were hit harder than a lot of poison builds were.

The pattern I see is that ehg likes to make big changes, ignore any potential collateral damage or side effects, and then refuse to give any compensation buffs until they eventually decide that the item/build/mastery in question needs to be remade from the ground up and that is very frustrating to watch.

At the end of the day, this pattern leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that I just don’t want to even think about this game anymore. Even if every issue here was fixed tomorrow (and it won’t be, these are core problems with the design of the game that have been around for years) I wouldn’t want to play this game again.

It’s been fun, see you guys around I guess,


It seems to me that our common problem is that we perceive endgame as 1000++ corruption.

The overwhelming majority considers 300+ corruption to be an endgame.

Maybe you and I played where we shouldn’t have played?
Unfortunately, I do not know the position of the developers on this issue.

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A bit dramatic to announce you are “quitting” a pre-release / in-development video game. You can just stop playing and even play again. You can even say “I’m not having fun with this.”. That’s a pretty normal thing to do!

I’m sorry you had your beta item nerfed and ran into a build issue in an extreme “build crushing” level of content in an un-released game and it made you upset.

Good luck, have fun.


To be fair, the endgame is 200 corruption and T4 bosses right now. Pushing corruption over 200 has only slight benefits at the cost of… surviving.

Is like complaining on wave 1500 or arena the monsters, hit too hard and there’s no way around it. Both arena and corruption have limitless scaling.

However I agree in all of what you said, I guess is just not a priority right now. These are problems that only degenerates that push the builds to the limit have.

What I don’t like is that all the endgame pushing focus is on defenses, supposedly enemy health should scale much higher than enemy damage, so you are forced to balance your damage and defenses, but we all know we end up choosing most if not all of the defensive blessings and our biggest upgrades are exalted health. With a decent skill, damage is never a problem.

Take a good break and who knows, maybe the game gets much better in those aspects with time.

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Yeah that’s exactly my issue. In a game where gear has the most room to provide offensive benefit (because all the taxes are on suffixes which don’t carry offensive stats) player damage needs to be the bottleneck. This is a big part of why people constantly say that gear means nothing in LE, we can’t scale our defense enough to hit a point where we actually do need to invest in damage.

With a limit of 30 effective poison stacks, you can already hear “oh my God, my poisonous assembly does not cause damage!”
With a significant increase in HP from monsters on a 1000++ monolith, players simply will not be able to kill them.
Can you imagine the amount of negativity in this scenario?)))

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The real problem is, moment you put the damage really to the test, force the devs to pay special attention to skill damage balance, people will gravitate heavily to the META skills, etc.

Anyways to me the ideal situation is when you have to think both for damage and defenses.

Imagine for a second you could use that legendary you have left in the dust in your storage, because doesn’t have enough defensive value to justify a slot.

I personally find much more interesting building for damage than building only for defenses. I am running my MP character with mostly useless prefixes because suffixes are the thing that carries me through empowered.


am running my MP character with mostly useless items because skilltree is the thing that carries me through empowered.

Just for fun)

I think writing twelve paragraphs was a bit overkill when you could have just written “I am upset that an obviously overpowered item got nerfed” and communicated the same thing.

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Useless items in what way? they’re just a bunch of 1 and 0s? You need to build up those defenses. :crazy_face:

I think you laid out your thoughts an dopinion really well, however I think theres a fundamental flaw in your logic.

No matter what ehg do, there will be one specific mastery that can push further than all others. That’s the simple nature of an endlessly scaling mode, it’s impossible for them to balance it for all masteries. You even allude to this in your post, by focussing on how you have to have block, you’re pointing out that even before the bastion nerf, 2handed, bows, dual wield, catalyst builds, couldnt push as far. That in itself was a problem, nerfing bastion was good becuase it made those builds more viable.

The core problem here isn’t that ‘only these classes can get this block layer effectively’. The core problem is that the block layer is too strong still, which has been brought up a lot in the past as well.

But really, the simple counter to your main point on corruption pushing, is that if you want to focus on pushing an endlessly scaling mode, you have to accept that you will be extremely limited in what you can play, because it’s not actually possible to balance everything for that, certain things will always be better, theres no way around that.

Also this would of been much better as a post that isn’t focussing on yourself at the center of it. Bring up the same points about corruption, block chance etc… we’ve had before, so new eyes can see them. Focusing on yourself does your insight a disservice, because people will inherently not take you seriously, you’ve become the meme.


Well, some might see it as not making other builds more viable, but making less builds viable overall. A more accurate assessment would be that builds were brought further in-line with one another… but none are now more viable for pushing high corruption monoliths.

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Its an endlessly scaling mode, what’s classed as high corruption is relative to what the average pushed amount different builds are capable of, not an arbitrary number.

It’s amazing, absolutely amazing, how deep you can delve into this construct.
And this madness is not to be understood negatively.
It’s just beyond any ambition that brings me to this game, for example.
i’m a pure leisure gamer, i never did the uberuber bosses in poe, for example, and so on.
I play for fun, I don’t have huge ambitions, I’m happy when it looks good, I have the feeling my character is getting better and stronger and every now and then a great item drops…
so I can’t even really understand what is written here, because for me, as well as for most of the players,
the problems you mentioned will probably never arise.

But I appreciate the time and effort you put into this game and I wish you someday find the game that’s perfect for you and never forget it’s just games


I agree with most of your feedback, tbh I didnt read all of it as the bulk seems to be corruption is massively unbalanced which I totally agree with, the treadmill vastly outpaces the character in all forms and you start to see absolutely insane things

There is some old videos of boardman21 stacking corruption and the enemies can get 150% movement speed etc. I personally stop at 350 as the game was already falling apart at that point. Even on a Forge Guard with 4 different damage reduction mechanics and 3k life still getting 2 shot, Minions dying immediately, Spires in maps having 2million hp etc

Ive posted about it here, problem is you are met with feedback from people who havent even gotten to that stage and think they understand the deep flaws later

If they are keeping ‘endless scaling’ then modifiers need to be removed, the fact you can stack 4x ‘increased damage’ is just a joke

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I think your feedback is valid and I agree with the core problems corruption presents, but I think this is just the nature of a casual focused game.

Prefixes and suffixes are separated for the sole purpose of making it so you dont ideally choose between damage/defense. This is so items are more balanced, 2 damage prefixes and 2 defensive suffixes instead of being 4 offense or 4 defense. There is some hybrid stuff being prefixes like attributes which can add some slight defense scaling on prefixes. This is really good design for casual players, “suffix is defense, offensive is prefix”. You see a similar design choice with “magic find” blessings never mix magic find stats and power stats. And there will never be magic find on items, as they dont want the choice to arise to be “well to make the most gold I need to slot in this affix on every slot it can at the cost of character progression”

I think you have to remember where the devs are coming from though. This is a game designed for a mixed base of player levels. Thats one of the design pillars, and I think they do a good job of having decent end game content levels while also making the game extremely casual friendly. But the most insane highest percentile suffers for it.

I think they can do plenty of work on making corruption make more sense as a mechanic, but I dont think its something they will be focusing on currently when there is still so much work to be done like masteries, class reworks etc.

As for my own personal take on corruption issues, I think there just needs to be a removal of damage monster mods. These mods start to become a problem for a more casual audience even at 200 corruption when an elemental damage mod starts to rock you. let the scaling come from annoying defensive affixes like dodge, resistances etc, And corruption value.

Take a game like chronicon which also has an infinite scaling end game, at one point dodge was the key way to push end game because the scaling for monster damage followed the same curve as defense. And you eventually hit a theoretical wall. The curve was eventually changed to a point where it almost didnt scale after a certain point. Meaning you still needed to build an ungodly amount of defense, and after that you needed to keep up in dps.

take for example now, lets assume there is no monster damage mods, to push 500 corruption you still need the defense to tank 250% more monster damage, but maybe the health value of corruption is scaled harder, and is 500% more hp. Meaning you have to engage in combat with monsters for longer, and there is still defense affixes they can gain through modifiers.

Now pushing corruption involves not only not ignoring defenses, but making sure you can keep up dps wise as well.

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That would still have made it best in slot, there’s just not any competition as far as im aware.

I suspect that part of the problem is the endless nature of corruption. If it had a fixed end point then more builds could be balanced around reaching that. But it doesn’t have an end point so at some point (sooner for some build) everything will get oneshot by trash.

He’s giving feedback in a non-passive-aggressive way.

Which is probably phenomenally difficult to do given the disparity on masteries, builds, etc.

I don’t think the devs are doing it deliberately.

So you don’t want comprehensive feedback? That’s like Shrukn saying he doesn’t want the devs to communicate with the community (which he did btw).

Why? They’re his thought about why he doesn’t want to play LE anymore.

Dragging one thing down isn’t the same as lifting other things up. They will be on a more level playing field, true, but one feels bad the other doesn’t.

Yes, it’s supposed to, that’s what that kind of thing does. Regardless of how well balanced things are, there’s always going to be a few builds that can go further and players’ hyper focus on efficiency and pushing as far as possible will always make mountains out of the molehill differences. Not that LE is that well balanced at the moment.

I have no idea what the best thing to do is, maybe its to remove the infinite scaling or something like you suggest.

Maybe mob hp should scale faster so that we do need to put more effort into scaling damage?

Damnit, apparently, I keep on typing thong instead of thing. I swear it’s not a Freudian slip @vapourfire!!!


You have meddled in forces that mankind was meant to leave alone…

this is valid feedback - yes 99% of people won’t be pushing corruption that high but this is where he is challenging himself, End Game is not the same for everyone. Do not think he needed to state he is quitting because of it as yes this is still in EA could have just stated what they felt needed to be changed and take a break.

I do actually find balancing offense and defense to be difficult which I think is more down to the fact we are limited to 2 suffix slots - I understand balance and all but think there is more room for defences and maybe allowing 2 prefix and 3 suffix, an additional suffix for defence layers could be a solution while still allowing despair for an additional affix for a max potential of 6. I am not sure how this could affect balance overall but something to maybe consider.

Well, I don’t think LE is in any way a casual game. Maybe compared to PoE buy definitively not compared to D3 that is clearly targeted to a more broad, casual audience.

Adding a new suffix on gear? That would turn the game upside-down.

I think having two suffixes and two prefixes is fine, suffixes are very tight as you get into endgame, having now cooldown recovery there definitively doesn’t help at all, but after some experience, CDR opens up exciting possibilities, sad it has to compete with the already tight suffixes.

Again, is a problem of enemy scaling, there’s not any definitive solution, but if, for example, the spread of more damage and health due to corruption was 40 damage 60 health instead of 50/50, we would get a more healthy late endgame, up to the next wall inevitable in limitless scaling.

The game does a fine job in your way to empowered, enemies not only gain more health with levels, also global damage reduction, up to about 85% reduction at level 100, but on empowered, health and damage are scaled linearly, and it gets worse with some modifiers to void enemies/or damage specific. There’s the issue and the reason we end up prioritizing suffixes over prefixes and defensive blessings over the others.