Or in the current case a hard ‘no’. No end in line for itemization. Can’t be achieved. Not because there is no end but because you can’t get to the end.
And there’s also a limit on corruption pushing. Because since you can’t get to the end of itemization you can’t get to the end of content progression itself.
This causes goals to easily be ‘overshooting’ and people loosing motivation earlier then a system where one of both provides a fixed end-point.
One which usually gets alleviated ‘endless’ games by progressive increase in ‘numbers go brrr’ feelings, hence higher level, higher gear, stronger enemies, they don’t even need to be harder to kill, just in relation as strong as the player while still providing higher number output. It works.
In LE the number output doesn’t happen which limits someone going further while showcasing ‘more is possible’ but simply can’t be reached by any means. That feels bad.
You have shown nothing. For 2 years everyone thought it was infinite (so the exact same as corruption farming). It took a broken league (and probably GGG even forgetting it was an int and not changing it) for someone to go “Oh look, it actually has an “end””.
So Delve and corruption farming are exactly the same. Especially because, given both cases, you have no idea if in 2 years you’ll also reach “the end” of corruption farming. But you can be 100% certain that it does have an “end”.
It doesn’t. There is no difference between either because both are side-content that have an “end”, using your very loose and very convenient definition. It’s optional.
It isn’t. You’re just trying to push that definition and skewed perception.
Core progression ends with 300c and Aberoth. Everything beyond that isn’t core progression. It’s bonus progression.
I am talking about specific unique helmet that has already been crafted with t7 % health and the 2 t5 rolls for vitality and strenght. In my case i am talking about Decayed skull (for my pala). Please show me proof of that Helmet for sale with those 3 extra stats on the tiers i mentioned crafted on it. You can’t, because it is not there,
Try finding a marina’s lost soul (for a warlock) wand with crit multi t7 and necrotic penetration t5 and like 1 more decent stat or even just those 2 stats Show me the proof if you state my claim is flase.
I have ser5ached multiple weapons, helmets, boots from different builds with the stats i needed. 0 results found.
Try getting an Orions sun seal (my paladin ring) with t7 block chance and effectiveness, t5 crit chamce and t5 strengt. It is not for sale.
And i can tell you some of these items exist, since i have crafted that helmet and ring i was talking about myself in the temple. But i had to gamble with exalted items and lp3 items to get it, i could not buy it.
You clearly have not looked up any of the end game uniques in legendary form for any build, otherwise you would not just have refuted my claim here, So please proof to me these items are for sale ( i know you can’t).
sigh
Now you’re quoting other people for an argument I made?
I talked about the argumentation line I made, not what someone else did.
One’s a side mechanic. The other’s the core progression.
Which I can only repeat again… in terms of core progression you’re absolute right that corruption pushing doesn’t need to be done to the end
Which isn’t what I’m talking about
Which I asked specifically to put to the side even
And if or if it not has a end is not even a question, because obviously, Minecraft also does
Because it is a loose concept which nonetheless is repeatedly used in game terminology.
Here, have a full-scale Theory about the topic if you want.
Usually nowadays when people went into the topic a bit it’s used for ‘The thing that the player as a basis does as the primary thing and which keeps the player engaged’ which is not the mechanical game-design aspect of ‘core’ but the progression based psychological aspect of ‘core’. Makes it confusing to differ between them a bit but there’s no other term available.
In diablo-clones your game-loop is plain and simple. Kill monster → get loot to make you stronger → kill stronger monster.
In the simplest possible terms, there’s a little bit more nuance to that, but that’s the psychological aspect and I’ll go into it - again shortly - after.
You do this until there is either:
A) No better loot to make you stronger
B) No stronger monster to kill
Afterwards it changes into another term of engagement, which is the thing happening in a majority of games. In diablo-clone games it is usually the TTK ratio for your character which gives a perception of progression.
And alternative thing is to focus on the pure skill-based aspect and have the equipment ‘run out’ rather then the available to run higher scaling mechanics.
Now having the content progress is really straight forward, it’s a comfortable level of progression, the difficulty increase in LE is rather linear there, it’s a ‘good implemented mechanic’.
Where it fails though is item design. There was even a very long discussion with Chris Wilson years ago about the item design philosophy in Path of Exile and why it’s as compelling as it is in D2.
For timestamps: 0:18 The importance of itemization itself as well as why other diablo-clones compared to PoE are less well received.
Afterwards directly is ‘diverse mod pool’ which is secondary but also a problem in LE. Not the specific topic I’m talking about though.
3:03 gives the best quote relevant directly to the topic:
“The harder it is to roll good items the better the game is, within reason of course” Within… reason he even added a ‘of course’ at the end of his sentence, as if it’s self-explanatory. And yes, it is. A person unable to understand this self-explanatory thing is something which baffles people after all.
Now we could talk about when it becomes reasonable, which is a scale, but in LE there is no discussion if aquisition of top-end items is reasonable, the answer defaults to: no
4:38 What is a ‘good item’ in terms of positioning. Especially important is this: “We want to have a lot of steps to upgrade” which is nigh entirely missing in Last Epoch, your amount of item upgrades is miniscule.
9:35 A specific talk about it needing to be hard to acquire good items. “We look to limit the amount of perfect items to very few per league”
Last Epoch as ‘0’ in the lifetime of the product in the current state.
“If it’s too easy, everyone gets an item like that. And if it’s too hard what is the point of pushing any character in a league”
This is exactly the one point I’m talking about
This video is a 2 hour long video… and I took the first 10 minutes and already can look at Last Epoch and say ‘Yeah, their itemization philosophy is inferior’ simply from that.
That video is from 4 years ago, which means this knowledge is absolutely something which EHG should’ve taken into consideration, you watch what your competition does, and if you don’t then you’re actively positioning yourself in a worse place.
It isn’t. That’s all in your head. Core progression stops with Aberoth. Everything else is extra. It doesn’t present you with any goals or achievements nor is it required for anything.
What you’re saying is the same thing as saying that Breath of the Wild letting you roam in sandbox after the story is finished (or Skyrim, or any number that gives you a sandbox to play with in the end) is “core progression”. It isn’t. It’s just something for you to entertain yourself with once you’re done with the game’s content and actual core progression.
The important core elements are at the end of my post, the last quote, everything else is just semantics and not useful.
Also if progression in general stops then a player stops shortly after. Which is clearly not intended for a live-service game so we have to define progression different for one compared to a single player game.
And a open-world game is different from a game which has a direct line to success with barely ways to branch out. Take that into consideration and how things are defined in different circumstances.
It’s not, what you’re doing is just deflecting and shifting goalposts.
As for your quote, that’s just a design choice, it’s not gospel. You can have unattainable gear as long as that gear isn’t required for any of your core content. Which it isn’t in LE.
Perfect gear in LE is like winning a super lottery. Chances are that it won’t happen in your lifetime, but it might. And planning your gameplay or goals around it is irrealistic.
Someday, as more stuff gets added to the game, you might get a better chance to get it and, consequently, a better chance to push the wall a little further. Just like as more stuff got added into the game it became possible to reach the limit of delve, when it wasn’t possible (or even known) for 2 years.
Corruption pushing is just an extra to keep you entertained a bit longer if you want. Otherwise you would just stop at Aberoth. Which is the cutoff point. That’s where progression is meant to actually stop.
There is no effective difference between either corruption pushing or arena waves pushing or PoE delve (pre-everyone knowing it has a limit). It’s just a wall you can keep pushing back until you feel you’ve had enough.
It’s not part of the core progression, it’s side-content to keep you busy once you’re done with core.
For this discussion there is no effective difference. You have your core game content and you have bonus stuff to do after you’re done with it. You just have irrealistic expectations for one which you don’t have for the other.
LE gives you content and progression up to Aberoth. After that, you can optimize your TTK as well, but the game is basically over. It’s done. You either move on to another because there isn’t much else to do (yet, that’s what future expansions will give you) or you make a new character and start the loop again.
What’s the point of pushing onward then if I can’t get it?
Nope, that’s PoE
The ‘might’ is so far away that it’s not even winning a world-wide lottery, it’s winning a galaxy wide lottery. And that’s not worth to attempt even in a gambler’s mind.
Once more, I’ve never talked about someone who should actually push to the end of corruption. I don’t know where you get the urge to combine this the whole time. I said in PoE those things are possible… and before delve they always were possible fully, and for the whole lifetime of the game it also was most of the time possible. But it was no issue for it to exist.
I’m talking about the items specifically. Since you - and everyone else - have no chance to ever see items beyond a specific level nobody in their right mind will push for the items beyond even that level. Items are usually a clear-cut way to progress, even in D2 or PoE where the variety of items is massive and your outcome nigh impossible to get… several people get those personally impossible outcomes. So in the end you see they exist, you know it can happen, hence you actively can try to get there. It is an encouragement for people to invest into that.
Last Epoch doesn’t have that, since those items don’t exist, never existed and will not exist for many many years into the future… if even. So why try?
So… Last Epoch commonly currently has a play-time of 60-80 hours per cycle optimally?
Because if that’s the case we don’t have a invested long-term core audience.
Those start at what? 200+ hours? 250? More for the genre?
To push forward you need to have the realistic way of upgrading your character reliably in a specific timeframe.
If that’s not given then the engagement level simply is not there to allow that, people do it once at best before realizing the reality. Which is why retention times in 1.0 were vastly higher then 1.1 despite content which should cause the opposite.
That’s a lack of understanding how a live-service game has to be designed long-term.
Sorry to say, but that’s simply a ‘no’. If that’s actively how you design the game to behave then you’ve also actively failed to understand the audience and will likely fail or at least not be successful on the market long-term. Which means the current situation warrants changes, specifically with the strong presence of PoE looking over to the game, studying the QoL mechanics and effects on players and then implementing those things.
Last Epoch was praised for being far better QoL, less hassle for end-game and hence in a position where you as a player can just ‘play and forget’ instead of having to use brain-juice in-between every single step of the game. No sextant handling, not updating prophecies (old PoE prophecies), not specifically picking out maps for the specific type of prophecies for the specific types of sextants you have… and they all hanged that to a singular system which makes it all easy.
That upside of LE? It’s gone.
QoL? Increased pickup range, a automated trade system, easier moving stuff between inventories… they picked up the several year long slack. Now LE is the more ‘clunky’ one gradually.
EHG lost their position, so they need to shine with polished mechanics, but neither itemization, nor progression rate, nor UI are polished currently.
We’re 1 month into the cycle and have not even heard any updates about the promised implementation of the MG changes. No snippets, no sneak-peaks, no teasers at all. We have no date, we have no estimation, we have nothing there.
So, what’s a player to keep interested long-term in the game currently? Since seemingly neither content nor itemization are.
Because there are still items that are attainable that only a few people will get each cycle? There is no difference in motivation as long as you have something to aim for, which you do. There are plenty of 3LP uniques that are attainable by a few people, so you push onward to get those. You just don’t push forward to get the 4LP red ring.
If you have:
-Tier 1, easy to get
-Tier 2, hard to get
-Tier 3, very hard to get but achievable
-Tier 4, very hard to get and only achievable by a very few
-Tier 5, unrealistic to aim for, might eventually drop
-Tier 6, unrealistic to expect, will likely never drop
-Tier 7, completely unrealistic
When you’re playing normally, you reach Tier 2, you have an incentive to keep pushing for Tier 3.
If you reach Tier 3, you might aim for Tier 4, even though only a few will get it.
If you reach Tier 4, you might even eventually get Tier 5.
This is no different from PoE, except that there are a few extra tiers which you won’t even consider.
Much like perfect items in PoE aren’t universal (as in your example of some time ago where you had a perfect item because it didn’t need corruption) and some variants of perfect gear are just as unattainable in PoE as in LE (for example, a perfect double-corrupt/enchanted/max quality/6 white sockets rare and expensive unique).
You did, by implying that delve was ok because it had an “end” and corruption pushing isn’t because it doesn’t.
It does have that. There is still a tier that is so hard to get that only a few people get it. It just has some more tiers after that. But you still have the exact same reason to keep pushing in one than in the other.
You are treating LE items as if there are only 2 categories:
-Very easy to get, and
-Impossible to get
But there are more tiers. You have just the same item chase you get from D2 and PoE, even if you have even more tiers after that that you can’t get and thus won’t aim for.
If you don’t like making alts, yes. Probably a bit more for people that play more casually.
Unless you like content pushing like arena or high corruption, because both are the basically the same thing.
Correct. We need more endgame for that. Which is why numbers fall fast after the start of a cycle.
No, retention numbers in 1.1 were lower because it started almost on top of a new PoE league and because of the gold exploit.
Right now LE is in the same state as PoE was about 1-2 years after launch. It had some content, but not that much. When they start adding more stuff to do, which is basically every cycle until 1.4 at least, then you’ll have more hours of content and better retention.
No they didn’t. They’re still in the same position they were before 1.0. It was just the hype that made some people have unrealistic expectations.
As I said, you still have attainable tiers of gear that are very hard to get and only a few per cycle will reach, just like in PoE/D2.
And you can make new characters, which is the next normal step since almost everything in LE is targetted towards incentivizing new alts.
First time ever posting in the forums, was gonna make a comment, but this big thread covers the biggest thing I wanted to make a post about.
The biggest issue with MG is that a person who is a casual like me needs a way to quickly pricecheck everything I’ve picked up.
First off, as a casual, I don’t want to spend the time to research what all the major builds are going to be for a patch and then go through and see what all the big ticket items, affixes, idols, etc for each one are. So, I’m left searching for and trusting other people’s MG filters. I pray that I’m not leaving 1mil+ items on the ground, but I have no idea.
Second, for the items that do drop from someone else’s filter, then comes the price checking battle. What I’ve read stated is that the major goal w/ CoF & MG is that playing the game is the focus. And that’s what I love doing. Unlike, OP, I don’t mind grinding tons of monolith echoes. It’s fun, and every item that drops feels like a freeroll that I might get something really valuable. But then, the dreaded run to the Bazaar and all the time it takes to go through everything.
I get it, there’s so many different values on items that it seems impossible to pricecheck an exact match to an item that’s on the AH. But if you can program in a pricecheck that shows even just an estimated range of value based on all items within a similar +/- value, that would go really far. Or the obvious ones, like exalteds, show me a range of prices for those with the same T6 or T7 affix.
As a casual, by at least giving me an estimated range, at least I can quickly identify what is trash and what isn’t. If that feels impossible, than I need a way to check the AH w/o having to run to the Bazaar and going from vendor to vendor so I can sort through what I pick up more quickly. When I finish an echo, I want to do a quick search, see if the item immediately pops up with a bunch of people offering it for free or cheap, discard it, and keep grinding. If I see some higher values right up front, that tells immediately that its worth storing and heading to the Bazaar to officially post later.
AH to me is a ton of fun and I want to do MG over CoF way more, but MG feels like way too much of an entry fee for effort as a casual player and there’s got to be some iteration that makes it more casual friendly.
My quite was especially related to Chris Wilson’s words ‘A few perfect items per league’. That doesn’t mean ‘a few good ones’ and it also doesn’t mean ‘a lot of perfect items’.
Motivation is reduced when you see something that could potentially exist but is so far out that it never will be. ‘Why push?’ hence. It immediately changes perception for a few stages before that as well. If the top can’t be reached the pieces before become less valuable in your mind as well.
Sure, we can abstract it. But let’s stay with the practical example above, which I find very good, from the video.
‘Upgrade steps’.
Which means ‘how often does a specific piece of equipment change during playthrough?’
In Last Epoch I would say that happens, 5-6 times during the playthrough? Crap item, better crap item, maybe a ‘decent’ rare, 4T5 or T6/T7 common affix with sub-optimal affixes on the side, maybe a rare T7 item before it’s ‘over’?
Path of exile has many many more. Since the aspect is from a SSF standpoint for those things (to make it easier comparable) a person there upgrades between 12-15 times to get to the top-tier items. You got at least 4-5 weapons during campaign, if not more, which is already close to the total upgrade steps in LE. Then in maps you have that many again, and at top-tier content you can also uprade a few more times - albeit less - for miniscule changes. Also ‘partial’ upgrades in-between like a exalted orb to give an item another affix which was missing before for example.
That’s a lot more. It’s smaller steps, it allows a player to stay engaged. Think about it like resetting a internal clock for reaching a goal. You got a limited time on it and it gets multiplied by a factor which changes with how many upgrades you already got in total. The more the higher that factor is.
Perfect items in LE are universally unobtainable. They don’t exist. Not a single one exists.
Neither exalted items nor legendaries.
No need to speak about ‘universal’ when we don’t even get anywhere close.
It was… an example… that a former statement… wasn’t true.
Not in relation to ‘it’s fine’. And I repeatedly mentioned that by now.
So plain and simple: screw off with that finally. It won’t become more or less true what I wanted to say with it, especially not after clearing it up more then once by now.
Last Epoch has no ‘perfected’ items.
Nope.
Below doesn’t count. No ‘end goal’.
They retention rate in 1.1 is worse then any D3, D4 or PoE league/season/whatever in history as much as I’ve seen. 50% retention loss in a week.
That is not related to content, this is a progression scaling issue. If the starting gameplay feels fine but you have the same type of play in the end then the only variable is the rate of progression through some means during that. Too little and it feels like it has no meaning and too much (which LE has) and people put their focus on other things to derive enjoyment from. If that doesn’t uphold to top-tier standards then it means you get complaints about all kinds of things. ‘The LP system’, ‘Monoliths are boring’, and so on and so forth. If you make steady progress though you have a much much higher line before that becomes a thing.
A prime example is ‘Siralim ultimate’ which has one and the same mechanic from start to end. Old-school 6-char party turn-based combat like Final fantasy had. You open 1 generic map, you kill stuff, you loot stuff, nothing ever changes… and people stay engaged with it since ‘numbers go brrrr’ and you always have something to improve.
It has basically no content gameplay-wise but it has a huge amount of meta-progression through items, mechanics and so on. You never experience anything new from start to finish in the actual content though, it’s just repainted maps, all the same size, all the same layout even.
Factually wrong. The gold exploit happened after the ‘big dip’. It only made it worse.
PoE league was not out yet, that happened 26th. Cycle started 9th. Prime time for it to start. D4 had nothing either going on. Other game releases also didn’t happen. Gold exploit happened a round a week in, by that time already 50% were gone.
LE has shit retention rate. The worst of the genre, the worst in history of ‘big contenders’ as LE is supposed to be and positioned in. That declares that something with the systems of the game are wrong.
1 Week is also not the common rate at which 50% of players reach empowered monoltihs, so end game is also not the core issue derived from the statistic. It’s surely increased from those reaching it by that time, but not, not main issue either. That would be miss-reading the graph.
My point was that for a quite large part of the available gear, perfect in PoE doesn’t exist either. For almost all players perfect gear is simply the best that is conceivably achievable.
So other than outliers like a crafted item that is better off without double corrupt, there is a very large number of impossible to get items that the PoE playerbase doesn’t even consider getting.
Which doesn’t happen in LE. If there’s some theoretical perfect gear, you’re treating it as if it should be possible to get.
You treat both games with different measures.
Considering you don’t have any retention numbers for any D3 season and you don’t have any numbers at all for any D4 season, I don’t know how you can feel comfortable making that claim.
No it didn’t. Just look at the charts. You ignore the first day peak, which is always inflated by people from other timezones staying up to play at launch (much like the first day of PoE always has a lot more players than any subsequent day, like the 228k on the first day. It’s not that PoE lost 28k players in the first day, it’s that those 28k players are in another timezone and now don’t count for peaks anymore).
LE had a stable playerbase of 50-55k players for a week until the exploit, where it immediately dropped to 30k. And then it had a stable playerbase of 30k until PoE league start, where it immediately dropped to around 10k.
Both drops at very identifiable causes.
Even if you decide to count the first day peak, gold exploit happened one week in where stable playerbase was 55k. That’s not 50% less than 75k.
A boatload of that does.
The only aspect many don’t go into is double-corrupting their god-tier items. In many many cases corrupting doesn’t even provide a positive effect, rather a outright negative. Many weapons have no positive outcomes compared to the already existing implicit. Many rings don’t have a positive outcome. Belts are stygian vises, you remove the slot by corrupting which removes the functionality… for items where it’s possible there actually exist mirror-tier double-corrupted items with perfect rolls. Ridiculously rare… but they exist.
But that’s where I even dialed back a bit in comparison.
A ‘God-tier’ item in LE represents 4T7, plain and simple. If we wanna go into the ‘double corrupt’ range then it’s a 3 T7 T5 + sealed T5, which would be the absolute of absolute biggest possible item existing, with the sealed T5 having the relevancy of a double corruption.
So even by taking that away a ‘normal’ mirror-able ‘perfect item’ is still not even comparable in acquisition rating to PoE.
So your statement even in relation is ‘false’.
It’s nowadays the norm with the amount of special bases having better upsides then a double corruption. Also with double-corruptions for rare items nowadays allowing for future changes on the items affixes, which means they’re not the ‘end point’ unless you’ve got a unique at which the acquisition rate compared to the double corruption outcomes once more creates the possibility of a existing ‘perfect’ item nowadays.
Sure, welcome to ‘perfect’ Legendaries. Here you have that category in LE. Limit Legendaries to be able to downgrade affixes after 2 T7 affixes can be put on it, so number 3 and 4 have this in it and hence are a next step beyond your perfected item.
Not hard to do at all.
Nah… nah… not even remotely. You just have not a single clue how itemization in PoE works relevant to the drop-rates and crafting rates, that’s something else
We have the information from Blizzard in concurrent players over time. This allows to re-create the ‘likely’ curve of retention as retention is always the same. If 80000 players start off on the first weekend and by the end we have a ‘floor’ of 500 for example then we can showcase the drop-off rate from Day 1 to the floor fairly reliably. Unless any specific event causing a spike or dip happening occured.
Week 1 of 1.1 had no such ‘spike’ or ‘dip’ situations, actually it happened right at the end of week 1 with the dupe, which should only affect 50% of the players at most where also a good portion of them won’t realize as they don’t engage with the affected system in that short timeframe while a good portion of them also isn’t extremely negatively affected by them ‘yet’ as they haven’t reached that state.
So yes, that at least stays, albeit it’s not precise anymore.
I did, 70k start, loss of 20k for the weekend (oof, big big ooooooof). The dip happened on Monday… which isn’t a surprise now, is it? ‘Gotta get back to work’. Obviously the peak players will be less, that’s why Saturday and Sunday kept the players rather then loosing. The drop in retention was seen on the 3 days before already though, and if you remove Saturday and Sunday which causes another influx of people not being able to play before (staggered retention rate) then it aligns perfectly with Monday already.
This means despite a staggered retention rate which should’ve caused the curve to flatten a bit it was roughly kept the same. Also unlike in other days you can see the top of the peak being cut off around 4PM, which is likely the time when trade was disabled. Hence when we solely go from release to start then you’re right! It didn’t loose 50% of players by taking that event into account! 40% ‘only’. Which is still horrible, horrendous, even with the staggering - which affects retention positively - it caused such a massive number.
Big ooof still.
League started 26th. Secondary drop - which reinforces my Monday argument - after Sunday 22.
20k then.
26th had 15k
So no, also not right.
Yes, they all are!
You just identified them wrongly
Steam chart related release on 9th is 70,7k, natural drop-off after day one to 58k, which is massive and showcases ‘nothing has changed’.
Drop off of 2k per day on Thursday and Friday, Saturday and Sunday rise (new influx of players)
Monday severe drop before even the reveal of exploit and shut-down on trade. Following a visible dip beyond normal for most of the week until stuff was cleared up.
Thursday the dip stopped, natural recovery on Saturday and Sunday, secondary major dip on Monday without event happening.
Repeats exactly a week after when PoE comes out, no extreme effect on LE numbers from poE release, natural dip on Monday.
Floor will be around 3k people this cycle I imagine, rather then the 5k we had 1.0.
Key point, nowadays. Before harvest it wasn’t the case.
After the power creep of the last 2-3 years, not really no. But I do know how it was for many years before that.
If retention was always the same we wouldn’t be discussing it and comparing LE retention to other ARPGs retention. So you have no idea what D3 retention rate was and no way to extrapolate it. Especially because you have no idea how many players were still around at season end.
Don’t you know how to read charts or are you just trying to warp numbers to fit your argument?
There was a 70k peak on the first day, every single day after that until the weekend was 50-55k. There was no 20k drop in the first weekend. There was a 20k drop in the first day. Similar to how this league PoE had a 30k player drop from the first day to the second and subsequent days.
Which, as I explained, is more because of people in different timezones staying late/waking early to play at launch in the first day, while staing in their timezones in subsequent days.
Which was when the exploit was widely discovered and fixed. Such a coincidence.
If you want to count the day 1 peaks, PoE had 228k players and 7 days later it had 153k, which is a 37% drop.
If you want to manipulate numbers to fit your argument at least do it in an honest way.
You mean like the dropoff from PoE from 228k to to 193k players? You don’t seem to understand that the day 1 peak has many players from other timezones that don’t contribute to that same peak in the following days.
The exploit was revealed in these forums on sunday and were handled on monday. So no, it was not “before even the reveal”. Either you’re misremembering or you’re being dishonest.
Going from 23k to 19k is not a major dip. It was simply the current trend since the gold exploit. There was no dip stopping on Thursday, you read it wrong again (or are being dishonest again). Every day since the gold exploit, excluding weekends) LE lost 4k players per day until it stabilized around the 10k mark, which has been more slowly going down.
I would expect it to be, since 3k was the floor in 1.0, actually dipping to 2k just before 1.1. Again, don’t you know how to read charts?
I must say, that I do not really get the obsession with perfect gear.
Yes, now it is plausible to craft perfect items in PoE, arguably the easiest it has ever been, but for many years this was not the case.
PoE crafting is 10 years of layered mechanics, each bringing a couple of more tools to the table, each leading to a slight growth in crafting power. Expecting LE to be held to the same standard would amount to hindering possibilities of growth in its systems.
The key issue with LE is that the progression is all wonky. After a short period of gear progression that is way too fast, it grinds to a halt. There is no gradual upgrades, you get 90% of the way there in just one jump, and then you just stop.
Yes, but the key point is that those 90% are what allow you to finish all available content. Everything past that is just a bonus. Side-content to keep you busy when you’re otherwise already done with the game.
Before Harvest we also had a period of time when GGG messed up their progression with the elder/shaper influenced items and progression felt like shit because the usual chances weren’t upheld.
And even then you could just make a second outcome of the same type (meta-crafting existed after all) which was vastly easier then nowadays because a majority of affixes didn’t even exist and had less tiers, so invested people could target specific items and do them with enough effort, do a second and double corrupt.
And that actually happened a few times, not often, but it did.
How many 4T7 items have you seen by now? How many 3T8 1T5 sealed T5?
None?
Guessed so…
I as well, I started right after release and knew some crafters. The start was wonky, but worked and those items still dropped or could be crafted - and were - as back then the amount of bases and tier ranges were vastly less.
It is… always… the same The ratio of loss over time is roughly the same for every league in PoE, it’s also the same for any MMO with expansion releases. It’s a well studied thing.
There haven been dozens of games out which showcased the same nearly identical curve, and we know what a flat curve and a steep curve stands for in comparison, as well as what sudden dips or spikes mean.
Nah, you seemingly don’t know it.
Release during a week means lower peak.
Strong drop on day 1 means returning people checking in if enough new content is available to make a re-play enjoyable, decided ‘no’
Slight drop after is normal.
Weekend meant actual influx of people finally playing for the first time (the loss of peak on release day, since it was a week-day), which is the counteracting of the normal curve function displayed on weekend releases obviously.
Weekend over and immediate strong drop, nothing special.
Hence if we take the amount of people which were coming in because of the weekend into mind with the usual drop-off rate of 10% from weekend to weekday we can make a informed decision.
Day 1 to 2 to 3 (weekdays) had a rate of 1-2 4k loss, 2-3 3,5k loss.
That would’ve gone on roughly. so we can say another 3k and a 2k loss. But we saw an increase in 2,5k on saturday and only a 1k loss to Sunday.
So our ‘influx’ of new players was 6,5k players.
That means our ‘natural peak’ for weekend release would’ve been 77k by steam charts.
Which brings us to a ‘natural’ peak of 40k on Monday shouldn’t the market shut-off have happened, as we can see with the flat peak, people went in as fast as out.
It’s the difference between a weekend and a week-day release.
The market was shut off, the fix wasn’t done. The market shutoff itself had the main outcome of the dip because players regardless of being affected or not by the exploit itself at the time couldn’t use MG.
Otherwise we would’ve not seen such a regular rise in players before.
70k to 58k is close is… 17% or so?
228k to 194k is close to 15% or so.
Which is a difference especially since Day 2 unlike LE didn’t have any further drops but a rise in retention numbers. Also you can clearly see how the curve differs overall for long-term engagement compared to PoE unless you’re utterly blind. PoE’s curve is nearly flat. LE’s curve is a high-speed crash into the floor in comparison.
For a single day it is. It’s at best expected at Day 1.
Monday.
Your reasoning is nonsensical.
You have several distinct curves with interruptions. Week to week one happens, which is natural. During the week reduction is less.
5k was the floor, 1,3k was 0,9.
And as a player I don’t give a singular crap about that if it’s then basically ‘over’.
LE’s item progression is bad, it’s not mediocre currently, it’s bad. Torchlight Infinite has a better one at 1.0, D3 had a better one, D4 has a better one.
The core system handling it is better in LE but not used. The limitations they went with are crippling the possibility of proper longer-term adjustment for progression rate.
