HARD disagree, this is one of the things I absolutely hate about PoE. Access to a boss being an item and giving it economic value disincentivizes people to actually try out the boss.
This type of content should be incentivised to do yourself in whatever position you are skill or gear wise. When you can’t beat the boss yet, you have a clear goal to work towards, there are more than enough ways to get progress (lvl up, gear up etc) through other means and then at a later stage return to the boss.
Giving away access to the boss for economic value will make it so, that certain types of players and people will never do the boss, because it simply doesn’t make sense for them.
Even if they would like to do it, but the risk of failing they entry is too big and thus disincentivizing even trying.
Dude, every nemisis gives a legendary. They are for sale, but not with the slammed stats that people need. I need my helmet to have t7 health, t5 strength and t5 vitality specifically. Those types of specifically slammed items are not for sale, because they are worth more than the cap.
MG is already infested with RMT, bots and had some duping problems. The prices were soon insanely bullshit. If you can’t farm out currency for mid level gear in a 2-8 hours, I think it’s already fucked. It’s impossible to farm gold in-game for even tens of millions in prices.
Bosses bosses being gated is a trend I hate in new ARPGs. This aspect of Diablo 2 was the best. Just rush to a boss, kill it, reset. Let people play the content they want without consuming 99% of their time farming materials and keys to do anything. Some farming is allright, but when I can kill a boss, why am I prevented farming it?
I think you might be forgetting that one of the reasons it doesn’t make sense for people to do POE’s big bosses with keys is not the difficulty but the fact that most of the time the rewards are garbage, and the players who are getting value out of doing them are juicing and/or playing a numbers game. It makes far more sense for some people to sell the maguffins for a very clear return than to roll the dice and probably get trash, and IMO it’s a good thing that they have that option.
It’s also supposed to be a risky endeavor, which aligns with the limited tries.
Much like dungeons do.
Some enjoy this type of content and others don’t enjoy those aspects.
It’s actually raaaaather evenly split there and you get complaints with ‘nothing is hard in this game’ when such aspects are removed.
Fun can come from overcoming challenge. Thrill, stress, hence leading to dopamine release and hence a ‘fun’ experience.
Without that aspect this release is significantly hampered, making it less engaging to actually strive for.
Hence why despite your chance I’ll actively say ‘Yes, companies should copy such systems… in moderation’.
That’s why I said you don’t understand the actual topic.
The problem for OP is that progression has halted.
The only way to progress is through lucky slams in the temporal Sanctum.
He is MG and can’t access the results as nobody offers them.
An alternative way would be progress through worn exalted items but their drop-rate is lower then uniques.
This leads to defaulting to saying ‘Legendaries are the problem’ which they are not.
It’s a problem of progression rate and how it adjusts towards end-game, or rather how quickly it does.
How many of them are slammed items versus how many are Nemesis outcomes?
It’s not 1.0 anymore, we got Nemesis and 1.1, baseline changed.
Also how many of them have a T7 affix on them? And how many one which is actually useful for a relevant build? After putting T7 in you already reduce it to probably 2-3 pages and with the relevant ones you maaaaybe got 1 in the end, if you’re really lucky.
Exactly, so divert it over instead of dismissmal.
Fair, definitely.
Now you got 2 arguments standing against each other. What’s worse?
Having access and no means to actually reliably try and succeed?
Or removing incentive to personally try the boss by raising the inhibitions for the attempt?
I lean to the second a bit.
I’m for informed choices, player agency. If a person can’t make informed choices by themselves this actively teaches them even.
So some never try… others learn to tackle things which they never thought they could, and some don’t want to bother with it getting something in return nonetheless.
Nope, no correlation.
Giving away access to bosses for people which have easy means to kill them is by no way, shape or form related to RMT. RMT is enabled through other means and those need to be handled.
I’ll agree that no gating at all but instead unlocking access is something which I also prefer.
And if tomorrow all modern ARPGs dropped a patch to allow you to rush bosses over and over the same way people ran Meph in D2, would you accept the significantly worse drop rates that would necessarily come with that?
Progress has halted at 800c. That is way past endgame. It’s no longer a progression problem but rather an endgame pushing problem. Which isn’t supposed to be easy.
At that stage, along with the new gliph, it’s pretty fast to farm harbingers. And they should have a 75% drop rate at that point.
So this means that every 3 harbingers you can expect 2 eyes. So 9 harbingers on average for 6 tries. Still 1 better than the 10 bosses required by Maven.
It really isn’t. It’s just a perception problem. LE just has to give you the tools to be able to do all content in a reasonable timeframe. Right now that content is 300c + pinnacle boss. If you want to push further, you should have a harder time of it.
Much like in PoE, if you want to push 15k delve, you have a hard time getting the great gear you need for it.
But you don’t hear PoE players crying out to GGG because it’s so hard to get that gear to progress past 10k in delve.
Why though? Outside of dumb shit like PoE no other games where fighting bosses is gated like this. I guess the closest is World of Warcraft where the instance resets each week. (although you could extend the lockout last I knew) But even then, for your guild’s play session they could go at the boss as much as they wanted.
I didn’t feel any less accomplished when I took down some tough heroic boss in WoW or beat something in Dark Souls just because I was able to try it as much as I wanted without grinding between attempts.
If people like feeling the risk of losing stuff there is a hardcore mode.
In POE you can just go past it and spend ingame mnoney if you want. Everything has multile ways to get there. In thsi game there is 1 way and that is farming harbingers for the Abbaroth tries and for the legendary gear it is slamming it in the temple in a big gamble. In Poe i always get there in the end. I have had leagues where i had multiple mirror worthy gear on. I have done all pinnacle bosses on uber version and i have hall of grandmasters on my belt. If i do not want to farm 10 maven bosses, i just buy a writ or whatever and do the maven again. I could even go to the tft and buy a bossrun from soneone else.
Same as with the other topic… it’s the magnitude of difference between his last upgrade and the current one.
And OP has a higher tolerance level then his friends in relation to that.
Also OP compares it with the invested time in PoE and the stage of overall progression there in his mind compared to how far the same time gets one in LE and the difference in progression rate then.
Which yeah! If you compare ti this way LE offers less for your buck simply. And it’s a viable argument to make.
Changing it directly? Quite another topic!
Not core progression… that’s a side mechanic.
That’s why people complain less.
Which once more is as you say, perception.
Psychological reward coming from monkey-brain we all humans have.
Huh?
Torchlight Infinite does the same, which is the other main competitor on the live-service market for diablo-clones.
We have D3, D4, LE, PoE and Torchlight Infinite. We coooould say Lost Ark but that game instead went limiting route (baaad) and P2W to subvert that. Only D3 and D4 (And Lost Ark) don’t have that of the mentioned ones.
The gear power progression curve is a problem, yes, and I’ve said this elsewhere. But it’s not OP’s problem, which is just that they want the best stuff, but don’t like how difficult and time consuming it is to get it.
That only works when it’s the person’s actual complaint. Here, it is not.
No shift in goalposts.
The topic was about viable crafted items for his progression.
Which yeah, they don’t exist, he reached the peak possible, nothing more to do.
My point is that it starts even below that, availability of generally viable items which have been crafted in MG… or at least appear to be crafted and have a good outcome.
It was a response on something you said. Let me refresh your memory:
It’s such a shame they never added the ability to buy items from other players to Last Epoch through some kind of auction house like system. They really missed an opportunity there.
Added to that, I like understanding ALL systems in a game I play. Just because I play COF, doesn’t mean I don’t understand how the MG works. As a matter of fact if you’ve played endgame COF, you know I should be even complaining more than MG players.
I said LP2+, not LP2 exactly. So my slams are including LP3’s as well.
There’s 11 slots of gear that could be legendary, I didn’t get even 1 rolled right. I lowered my standards to LP2+. None of them hit. Tried for 100hrs, at some point the time/effort equation comes in and that’s causing people to quit playing LE.
Again, I had 0/11 slots upgraded the way I wanted. You think someone is going to spend 100+hrs for 1 slot upgrade? What would YOU think is a good amount of time? 1000+hrs? 100k hours? To be honest with you I think 25+ hrs is already pushing it for most people.
Let me add that I’m actually a very patient player, many other players will quit before me. In my group of friends, all have quit LE. They love gambling in PoE and went back to PoE instead. They hated the stacked RNG in this game.
Do I need to keep telling you that PoE and LE are not the same?
Hmm, interesting reply. Do I need to explain there’s no correlation between the time me being here and LE in-game play time?
As for the childish pedigree games and flexing. That was a response to something you said before, allow me to refresh your memory once more:
I quit playing very early this cycle, but I’ve probably spent orders of magnitude more time slamming Legendaries than you have. But I’m not going to marry a gorilla and then complain about the stench of bananas, so I’ve never once thought “I’m going to quit this game if the RNG doesn’t give me the best items right away! ”
Did I read that right? You flexing on someone else playing childish pedigree games…
You understand that it has nothing to do with accomplishment and those are both wildly different scenarios from an ARPG right?
You have to actually do the dungeon to farm bosses in WoW, and the ones that drop the best items can’t be farmed a hundred times a day. There’s still a gate, it’s just time instead of a maguffin. And with a Souls, killing the bosses relies way more on your own skill, the drops are fixed, you only kill the boss once per run, and loot hunting is not the entire point of the game.
Neither of those cases are at all equivalent to an ARPG boss with random loot that can be killed hundreds of times a day.
[Edit: To be clear, I’m not making an argument either for or against gating bosses here. I’m just pointing out why “WoW and Dark Souls do it different” is not a very good argument against gating bosses.]
Honestly, wasn’t thinking of other ARPGs. I feel like ARPG games in general have some pretty bad tendencies with stubborn design. Frustration and grind for the sake of it.
You do the preceding dungeon content once per week for unlimited attempts for the rest of the week.
Sure. But the suggestion was to only require the eyes for follow up kills. Your first dozen attempts of not killing the bosses isn’t you farming a treasure trove of items from him. It’s literally just smashing your face against the wall for no gain aside from fight experience.
Besides outside of trade, is it a problem if players can farm items from the final boss as much as they want in our single player game? And trade SHOULD NOT be impacting solo design. Hence the faction split. Maybe CoF could get guaranteed extra eye drops or something and the boss items just get tagged as CoF.
I feel like that’s more a design problem with the game. The fact that there are builds that can completely annihilate a boss without engaging with the mechanics is just dumb and designing around them just pushes everyone else to do something similarly abusive. If you don’t need to do the mechanics to farm the boss, why is there even a boss? Just put up a pinata with an enrage timer and let those builds have at it?
LE does cause every acquired item to be account-bound currently. Keys/Eyes can fall into the same category.
So… care to tell how someone doing RMT acquires the keys in a reliable and profitable fashion without the ability to re-sell?
Here’s why it’s not inherently the cause.
And this is the one thing I didn’t think about and now 100% agree with.
First try endless, follow-up resource spending.
Yep, on board.
No, because it has no market, which changes the situation. You’re not ‘solo’ anymore then.
But an option for single-player (offline mode and true offline mode) is a thing I would definitely love for EHG to implement for those things.
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