The same clear stance as the one about changing mastery!?
Cause i just find out that they are just suborn to change it but in the end will get to where it needs to be just takes more years in this case.
Not going to argue anymore but time will tell.
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I agree and I personally was very shocked how the mastery respec will come into the game form 0 to 100.
It is similar, but Item Factions are relatively new and I don#t think it will change anytime soon. Mabye in the future they will make that change, once there is more stuff in the game.
Also I wouldn’t call them stuborn, because of a game design philosophy.
You can agree or disagree with certain decisions a game developer has, but it has nothing to do with subornness, if a requested change does objectively not serve as a pure positive/upside for the game.
Stubborn is, when they don’t want to make a change with no good reasons.
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The answer to all of them is simply “You don’t”. In pretty much every single game half the people don’t finish it. Be it an ARPG, FPS, RTS, platformer, etc. Even in great games that are awarded GOTY and are wildly acclaimed, this still happens.
It’s just a symptom of the age we live in where there are way too many choices and players just keep jumping from game to game.
You always want to improve all those steps, obviously, to grab more people. But you’ll still always have half the people that never finish the campaign. And half of the rest don’t advance to whatever next goalpost you set. And half of the rest don’t advance to the next one, etc. It’s just the nature of gamers these days.
I mean, PoE1 is one of the best diablo-likes. And it’s clearly targetted at the type of player that chases the endgame. And still only 2.4% of players killed Maven. Regular Maven. Only 3.1% killed Sirus or Atziri after all these years.
Even D4 which is clearly targetted at casuals has less than half the players reach level 50.
So yes, always strive to improve all aspects of the game, but don’t ever expect that you’ll be the first game where most people finish the campaign.
It’s neither positive nor negative. It depends on the type of player you are.
People that live and die by trading in PoE hate it because they can’t play the whole season just profitting from flipping, sniping and price fixing.
People that don’t really enjoy trade as an endgame mechanic but do want to trade up for progress like it exactly because of the same reasons.
Most players don’t actually like the trade environment in PoE because it’s clearly targetted at the 1%. They just want a glorified vendor that is fed by players.
That’s the wrong conclusion.
There’s a portion of those people (which are the absolute vast majority in any game) which would be reeled in. Missing out on that is one of the major mistakes of game development.
It’s normal, not a symptom of the age we live in. It’s always been the same, always will be the same. The difference is that the initial hurdle to get into the hobby has been higher a - by now - long time ago and simply got lower, hence the amount has risen accordingly.
The core principle has stayed the same.
Did you read the rest? I did say you should always strive to improve and try to grab more players.
It’s just that you’ll never grab most because no game has ever been able to do that or even come close, even though we’ve had some masterpieces over the years.
It isn’t, really. 20-30 years ago you had less games and it wasn’t as easy to get new games as it is now with steam. What this means is that 20-30 years ago players usually got a game they were actually interested in and they would play it for longer, often completing it.
With steam, many players buy games they are only borderline interested in (usually via sales or because there’s a big hype surrounding them) and play them until something else catches their attention next, which is usually quite fast.
That’s not what the person I replied to said. They said that the majority of people quit at Abberoth, which, unless Abberoth now spawns in the campaign/early normal monos, is substantially later than the campaign/early monos.
There is no “from there”, your statement is moving the goalposts off the field & into the car park.
If you’re going to be that pedantic, would you mind having the intellectual honesty to actually use what people have said rather than “slightly” adjacent words/phrases then shifting the meanings further. I wasn’t just disagreeing with the “most people” bit of the statement, I was disagreeing with the “quit at Abberoth” bit of the statement just as much since it’s directly contradicted by what EHG have themselves said so is likely to be bullshit.
I think you might want to try that yourself.
As pointed out, “most people” don’t get to monos or empowered monos, let alone Abberoth.
Never said it wasnt too hard, just disagreed that “most people” quit at Abberoth. Just for clarity, if you missed it…
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I disagree. Technically, sure the first sentence below could be interpreted as the entire player population. But this isn’t an english assignment, and you aren’t the english teacher.
It seems pretty clear to me that he/she is talking about the population of players that actually try the Abberoth fight.
Which is why I called you out for twisting the meaning of his post. Because it seems incredibly ungenerous. A pointless grammatical diversion. So sure, call him out for the technicality of his sentence meaning if it makes you feel righteous. But in 2025 a player taking the time to post on a forum is probably a player that knows that a large majority of players quit way before the end game.
Or you could extend him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he meant of those players actually fighting Abberoth, and say something like, “now, of the population of players that actually try Abberoth, it could be that EHG didn’t like the metrics, because they did reduce the difficulty”.
I know you skim read these posts. I am being too hard on you. I’m sorry. This thread just struck me as the sort of ‘skill issue’ bullshit that goes on in the PoE threads and that pisses me off.
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To be fair, I agree that you could interpret it that way. But I also read it in the same way Llama read, in that he was referring to Aby as the single most important factor for players quitting overall.
But even if we do interpret it as that, I still don’t agree that people “almost exclusively” quit after it. This term is quite more strict than simply using “most people”. It infers that only a very small minority of people that fight Aby don’t quit.
While we, as players, don’t have any data on this, observational evidence seems to point otherwise. There are plenty of Aby items being sold in MG by several different players. I often see people on chat asking for help with Aby kills, so that is another group that doesn’t simply quit but asks for help instead. Not to mention the number of people that try it out, fail or don’t enjoy it and simply ignore it afterwards.
So, in conclusion, if the statement was “most people that try to fight Aby quit afterwards”, I probably would personally disagree, but I wouldn’t think too much of it. Using “almost exclusively” does seem to be hyperbolic, though.
To be fair, I don’t think Llama actually ever said anything like that (at least that’s not how I interpreted it), other than using it as a “mirror argument” for the hyperbole.
I’ve read the whole thing as simply disagreeing with the use of a hyperbolic premise, rather than the premise itself.
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Agree, and yet I was picking exclusively on Llama, and that was wrong. Again, sorry Llama.
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It’s fine, he’s british. He loves to get into arguments over stuff like this, otherwise his pedantism grows weak. 
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Also to the overall discussion I would like to point out and look at it from the other side of things, which is never really spoken about.
I think Abberoth actually caused a subset o the playerbase to player longer/more than they would have without a fight like that.
Because on initially failing the fight it gave them motivation to continue to push their characters.
People voicing ther frustration is much much more common than people voicing how happy they are that something was added or exists in the game.
This is something very common and we don’t have the numbers how many people quit or continued to play because of Abberoth. Even for the people quitting Abberoth is most likely not the single reason they quit. It is always a issue of several comopunding factors.
I personally think LE desperately needed something like Abberoth, a fight that you can gauge your build and character against that is the same for everyone.
No RNG, no scaling, no other ousidefactors. Things like this give goals and motivations.
Do we know which side is bigger? No? Does EHG know? Probably not either, it is all just guesswork with a little bit of metrics trying to come up with a conclusion.
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There’s no “technically” about it. You’re reading into what the other person said & saying that he meant things he didn’t say. There are no ifs & buts here unless he wants to edit his post & change what he said.
At no point does “people almost exclusively quit after trying Abberoth” agree with the generally accepted statement that “most people don’t complete the campaign”. You can squirm aboug as much as you want, what he said is wrong.
I’m not twisting the meaning of his post. Im using the words he actually typed & comparing them with the generally accepted view that most players don’t get past the campaign to show that what he said was wrong. If what you say is what he meant then he’d need to say that rather than leave out the rather critical part where he’s only referring to the relatively small number of people that get to Abberoth rathef than the significantly larger population that don’t even get past the campaign.
Life would be easier if people actually said what they meant. But then politicians would have issues… 
Thank you. I do skim posts & “skill issue” comments tend to piss me off as well (except when I make them, obviously). But people saying one thing and meaning another pisses me off in the same way, so just like you’re being hard on me, I’m being hard on him. Maybe I’ll feel as generous as you & apologise to him.
I don’t think I did (in this thread 
) either.
Pretty much.
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