I used all 10 eyes, but I couldn’t clear the Final boss.
and I´ve been killing 8 Harbingers on Corruption from 200 - 400 but didnt get a single one, is there anyone with the same problem, or has any infos?
1 Like
im curious as well. i couldnt even find a guide on killing the pinnacle boss so its probably really hard to do. i dont know how to get more but you might want to hold up until a decent guide comes out on youtube
Each harbinger has a 25-75% chance to drop it depending on corruption. So you could have just been unlucky.
1 Like
I just lost a couple eyes without clearing. Feels really bad and knowing there is a grind for more eyes is even worse.
I get that after you’ve cleared Abberoth that you shouldnt be able to instantly fight him. But for learning the mechanic they really should just have it not consume eyes until you’ve beaten him once (and don’t guarantee eye drops when progressing). Or do a story mode fight where he’s weaker for people to learn the fight. The current implementation is just very bad especially if you fail to clear it in 10 tries.
3 Likes
Hard disagree, this is supposed to be pinnacle content and should not be accessible infinitely.
Also hard disagree on a story mode fight. This is the first fixed difficulty fight and the great addition and one of the purposes was to finally have a non scaling fight with a single difficulty.
Giving you basically 10 guaranteed tries is already very generous.
I feel like these request for even easier access are just moving goalposts even further.
I think the current implementation is extremely generous.
3 Likes
Enjoy your constant white knighting. Glad you got to experience the fight 100s of times in testing.
For the rest of us, it feels really REALLY bad. Anyways, between this and the Temporal Sanctum constantly breaking I’m probably going to quit.
3 Likes
Agreeing with a lot of game design decisions of a dev and thinking they are good is not equal to white knighting. There are more than enough changes that EHG did that I critizied and still don’t like.
Yes I did, but we also test progression and accessability.
And I really especially enjoyed the first few runs. The learning curve for the fight was incredibly satisfying. Probably the single best learning experience I ever had in any ARPG Boss fight.
Having those 10 tries really gives the ability to experience the first few mechanics a couple of times. If you didn’t get into the later stages of the fight within those tries you have to work a little bit more, that is how this kinda of stuff should be.
Don’t speak for other parts of the community. This is a typical case of people being unhappy with something will speak up, while people that are happy will not say anything for the most part.
There already were a couple of other people posting very positive feedback about the current implementation and being very happy with the boss fight itself.
3 Likes
Why? 10 tries is very generous already. If you look at PoE, you get 6 tries per grind loop. They also don’t let you keep trying Sirus or Maven forever. You got your tries, if you fail you need to grind it again.
I would agree with this if it were an option and the boss wouldn’t drop any loot. Like, you enable “I want to test the boss fight”, you get the full fight as normal and in the end he doesn’t drop anything.
And even then I’m not sure if that would be a good idea, because it kinda dillutes the whole “pinnacle” thing.
This thread is 10 days old…
OP was already able to clear Aberroth, so we can all go home now.
You’re assuming testing gets unlimited access to the boss without cost. You’re wrong.
Actually, most people will just quit without saying anything. Sorry I said something. I’ll let you go back to an echo chamber.
If you look at PoE, you get 6 tries per grind loop.
So now you do a grind for a single try? How is that remotely similar? 2 grinds in POE is up to 12 tries (let’s not forget the fact that they also have easier versions) and each follow-on gives you another 6. There is a reason that POE has had a ton of backlash on single portal bosses as it’s a really bad design choice. I’d always rather have 6 tries than a darksoul one shot regrind. This game isn’t a dark souls genre and designing it in that manner is a bad choice.
2 Likes
You grind one harbinger, you get another try. If you want to grind Maven, you have to kill 10 different bosses for another 6 tries. You’re not being honest with your comparison there.
If you want more tries, you can grind more harbingers, just like you are forced to do in PoE.
I killed 5 harbingers and got zero eyes. It’s not a guaranteed drop after the first 10. So no, it is a fair comparison.
So similar to how conquerors used to work in PoE when they were the pinnacle of maps?
And similar to how Maven worked when she was introduced?
Basically like PoE always does until a new “more pinnacle content” comes along and they then make the previous one more accessible?
1 Like
I had to look help from the internet why I don’t find any more harbinger eyes and this thread came up, I have now killed 10 harbingers with out single eye.
And I used all 10 when learning the mechanics (got one shotted 10 times about 15-30 seconds in to the fight) and was not able to do about any damage…
Well time to quit I think and play something else…
This stance has nothing to do with white-knighting.
Pinnacle content is pinnacle content because it is hard to access and hard to beat, with little leeway to make mistakes. If the mecanics of Aberroth himself are unfairly done we can talk about that, which yes… some of his combos are a bit nonsensical in how they tend to overlap. But for the access? That’s absolutely fine.
Also pinnacle content has no training wheels since it’s meant to be beaten while learning, the bar there being personal baseline skill + adaptability.
Pinnacle content is also not meant to be beaten by everyone. The majority will not beat Aberroth. It’s a goal to work towards, a obstacle to overcome so the ones which have not enough challenge presented can have something to deal with, and for those not there yet something to work towards.
If there’s content you can’t handle then you get better and make sure to take as much from it as you can to do even better the next time, up until you manage to beat it. You don’t ask to make it easier.
Not to speak that you got a boatload of tries to learn the fight before it becomes critical, hence having a substantial amount of leeway to beat the boss. That’s not the normal in other games of the genre. Neither Torchlight Infinite (a bit more casual then LE) nor PoE 1 or 2 allow easy access to pinnacle content.
While those ‘6 tries’ are balanced to be a single try as well, given that PoE content is not created with HC as the primary factor, but with it being able to be beat while dropping on the ground. So yes, definitely quite generous.
The sound makes ne music. Nobody complains about your stance being a different one, quite the contrary, then the discussion is supposed to start to see where it comes from and which details make the difference up, as well as if there’s potential ways to please both sides. This type of communication leads to fruitful insights.
On the contrary putting your position on a pedestal and undermining the arguments of the other side based on a perceived moral high ground does do nothing at all. Actually… it does damage your own stance substantially since you’re not providing any point to even argue about.
Which is why I’ve enjoyed seeing this actually:
Because that’s a valid argument! And I agree. It’s hard to compare there.
The first bit is the difference in balancing. Even the ‘easier’ versions (There’s a Uber Aberroth btw. coming out, so the current Aberroth is the easier version) have a substantial difficulty behind them. Depending on when they were included. Shaper/Elder are rather easy nowadays, Sirus is beatable… but Maven is still a very harsh fight, as are Eater of Worlds and Searing Exarch. Even veteran players with quite decent equipment tend to struggle to beat them, the few which do it deathless are the exception, not the norm. Because it’s balanced around that.
As for re-grinding… Maven re-grind take 10 shards for the Maven fight. Shards are acquired only through grinding up 10 different maps to then re-kill those bosses for usually… 1-2 shards. Alternative faster methods exist, but they need substantially higher investment and skills. That’s the Aberroth equivalent. Also Aberroth is quite a lot weaker then Maven mechanically. Just more chaotic.
If we look at Eater of Worlds and Searing Exarch instead you’ll be right. They’re easier to grind up, make the content to acquire access though substantially harder. With… I think it was 18 maps baseline to acquire (Dunno, they build up simply on the side for me while playing).
In LE you have a roughly 50% chance for getting a try at a full bossfight with Aberroth after every boss at the relevant corruption level. To get there you’ll need around 10 monoliths per boss-fight (if you’re around the middle-area of the web and not the edge, substantially quicker… or close to start, substantially slower). Hence every 20 Monoliths you’ll get a chance at a Aberroth bossfight. While less tries in total the cadence of tries is higher and unlike in PoE you have the ability to adjust your character in-between to make up for issues you’ve found out your build still has.
Yes, I would want more tries for a boss as well. The current issue with that is that EHG has no method implemented to reset any instance after death since they aren’t persistent in the current situation. Why they aren’t persistent we don’t know, EHG has not explained it in-depth, though they said it has a technical reason of some kind.
So while enjoyed it’s just not a thing. They either need to circumvent some limitations with the Unity engine first or simply don’t have the respective know-how to make it in a way that’s not detrimental to the overall integrity of the game in some way for now.
Until that is solved we’ll simply have to deal with that.
I’m assuming you mean echoes, because otherwise I’m just confused.
It will also depend on your corruption. Harbingers spawn after the boss fight rather reliably, more so with higher corruption. And they start with a 25% chance to drop an eye and goes up to 75% chance with higher corruption.
So if you’re just averaging the 25-75% range, it’s not quite true, because there’s a chance the harbinger won’t spawn, bringing it below 50%.
I don’t know the actual values from an official source but I’ve read that it’s 25% at 100c and 75% at 600c (LETools just says “at higher corruption”). That would make 350c slightly below 50% (since it may not spawn), if it’s a linear rate. At 100c is should be about every 4-5 boss fights. At 600c it should be around 3 every 4 bosses.
Yeah, Echoes, dunno why I started writing ‘Monoliths’ for the maps… got somehow ingrained in my brain and I can’t get it out.
And your math is better set up then mine there. Still in the ‘acceptable’ range though I would argue for a boss of that magnitude without anything else ‘worthwhile’ to grind for an excessive timeframe. A bit on the low end I would say then, probably fair to adjust the chance up a bit.
1 Like
This is actually my first post since I quit after my last post you responded to from last year. You can complain that “this makes me want to quit” is a stupid argument, but it’s true. The Abberoth eye mechanic is AWFUL and encourages you to just roll a character that can DPS skip the phases so you don’t fail it. Abberoth is very unforgiving (and certainly scaled way higher than 300 corruption levels of difficulty) in that if you’re actually playing the mechanics one wrong move can one shot you (doubly so if you’re playing a dodge based character) - and since it’s one portal content you then have to go back to hours of farming if you’ve used up all your eyes. Players that use up all those eyes and don’t succeed will more often than not quit rather than go back to grinding for a mechanic that feels very bad and unforgiving. It’s what I did and I’m guessing the majority of players that get to Abberoth fall into that situation.
This is incredibly wrong. Maven is far easier than Abberoth. Most of the complaints on Maven are the memory game which kills most people especially when they’re first learning the fight. But POE is 6 portal content meaning you can literally just die every memory game and clear the boss. The same is true for searing exarch rolling ball phase which you can just die on and re-enter. A closer complaint would be Aul which was incredibly unpopular on release during Delve because it is one-portal content. But at least it was easy to retry. If Abberoth was 6 portal content your argument would actually make sense, but it isn’t.
I’m coming back for season 2 since it looks like EHG is ignoring people like Kulze and Heavy - thank god - and making updates to Abberoth. I’m sure EHG is looking at their metrics and see that people almost exclusively quit after trying Abberoth, failing repeatedly using up their eyes, and quitting. I’d be willing to bet that happens to most players. It certainly happened to me. I gave my feedback and quit. It’s the first time in the history of the game I felt like that as normally I would corruption push and keep playing well past level 100.
As for Abberoth changes (we don’t have the full details):
They’re making the normal Abberoth fight easier
It’s not clear to me if that means the eye mechanics are changing or they’re just making Abberoth easier. Hopefully they’re abandoning the eye mechanic like in Uber Abberoth (see below). A build that is easily clearing 500-800 corruption will often struggle on Abberoth currently. It’s definitely over tuned. Most builds that clear it are just going super DPS stacking that skips all the phases which is incredibly dumb.
As for Uber Abberoth:
If you fail the fight you can just go again, they are looking into punishments for failure but nothing implemented right now.
For the uber version it looks like they’re abandoning eyes altogether - which is really good. The one portal content in LE is awful feeling when you screw something up. This lets you actually play the fight and feel sequential progress as you get better and better at it and not feeling like you just wasted a key every time you made a single mistake. You already waste a lot of time just doing the fight - like the harbinger intro which is just a time sink if you aren’t DPS stacking. I got worried when they were putting critical uniques gated behind it (the same problem POE has) as it makes the content necessary rather than a bragging right goal. But giving repeated attempts until you clear feels far better given LE is stuck on one-portal content.
Never complained about that, absolutely not!
It’s a fair and 100% valid argument. Perception matters after all.
Also never said it’s a ‘fantastic’ mechanics. It ‘works’… which is more then some other things implemented did or even still do currently. But it’s not a great mechanic. A better one would be amazing surely, but which one? And how to iron out the details? And especially… is it the priority to do so compared to other things?
Hence… is your form of perception the primary issue perception wise for people or are others more important still?
Wouldn’t say the majority. But yes, absolutely! It happens.
As said, your perception isn’t wrong… just how you tried to argue it didn’t help you at all. The contrary.
Difficulty wise: Yes.
Mechanically: No.
I specifically mentioned mechanically for that reason. The amount of phases with different attack types interchanging as well as the memory game cause a issue for many many people.
There’s a really big amount of players which have troubles with pattern recognition and hence learning those. Mechanical bosses don’t get ‘ingrained’ hence as easily as Echo-to-Echo gameplay does… as the method to beat those is always roughly the same (exception of a few specific enemy types).
The argument still makes sense, the amount of re-tries given to you from the get-go is substantially high, meant to make up for the shortcomings of the system.
Would it be better if you get… lets say 2 eyes but have 6 tries per usage? That would cause you to have 12 tries rather then 10 (I think it was 10?), 2 more. And the re-drop rate being subsequently lower as well to uphold overall try-rate? Obviously with a leaning towards more dropping given that otherwise the amount of positive results would overall dwindle excessively.
They’re making a harder version. Which changes to ‘normal’ Aberroth are happening (if any meaningful) is open.
I can only argue from the currently known points and existing content in the game. Might become vastly better… might be a shit-show too.
Not even remotely the reality. A majority of people quits vastly before Aberroth. Some do (since it’s a grating annoyance after all) with Aberroth and the reasoning not especially being Aberroth himself but the perceived aspect that upgrading to fight him with better chances at that stage of the game is taking ages or seems simply not achievable since the itemization system of the game is already at the top-end by that time.
Likely this. The Eye part can hardly be changed since EHG has no persistant instances - yet - and hence can’t do the re-try. That mechanic simply isn’t created by them yet… but asked for heavily, for good reasons.
How effective it’ll be? No clue, that’s up in the stars still, so I won’t argue about it in the first place. Aberroth could become a joke or Aberroth could still stay roughly the same.
Unless specifically designed for a HC aspect then one-portal design is overall a garbage mechanic. We’re talking about a Softcore game after all where the implementation of Hardcore elements should only be done to cause a specific gameplay feeling, and never in the core progression itself. Something I’m also notpicking at with GGG’s designs.
That on the other hand is mandatory. Bosses derive their value from the rewards given. So uniques is a prime way to uphold their value for engaging, no matter how easy/hard they are.
The alternative is unlocks, but unlocks can cause players to feel like ‘missing out’ fully. With an item you can circumvent it at least.
Yes, how content should designed to be. If you want the respective reward it’s necessary… otherwise you inherently ‘phase out’ content which is less rewarding then others. A balancing nightmare which hasn’t worked in any game long-term yet.
1 Like