i’m very curious to know if my self crafted forge guard , forge strike build is on the right path damage wise or if it fall short comparated to other build and if i should squeeze the juices out of it more.
i finaly managed the staying alive part i can’t face tank lagon yet but i bet i could with some tweaking. im doing avout 18k forge strike crit with pretty good attack speed and not counting the ignites + manifest weapons with that so im curious to know how other builds do with their main damaging ability ?
You may want to give a little more detail on your level and active skills to help people give a decent comparison…
For example… I crit over 100k (highest close to 150k lowest 80k) with my lvl 86 spellblade Flame Reave on the dummy but thats not really going to be a fair comparison without knowing more about your lvl and skills. And it ignores the the skill rotation, stacks, gear that other builds use to get to the crits. There are plenty that crit even higher than my spellblade but I would never realistically compare them - its sort of an apple/oranges issue.
Edit: Keeping it in the Sentinel build family (as this is where you posted it): My Pally lvl86 Shield Throw does 2k average crit on the dummy but it ticks almost constantly because of the attack speed (130%)… I would never compare its crit to the Spellblade but in playability it clears just as fast just in a different way. My VK Rive was doing about 40k to 60k crits on the dummy before I respec’d it to try other things so I cant do an actual test to make sure right
i think i was lvl 72 or around from memory but sure seems lackluster comparated to all you told me about damage even if i can hit multiple times in a tow (maybe 10ish shots in a fast sucession before i need to use vengeance to regenerate mana. i guess its not quite up there yet… fortunatly theres still room to much improvement. just need to figure out the best way to go about bringing my fire damage up a notch
I haven’t played that build at all but a quick lookup:
Strength: 4% increased melee physical damage per point
Attunement: 1 added melee physical damage per point
unless you have changed the dmg from physical in the skill tree you’re gonna want increased physical damage where you can get it I think and those attributes. I would lookup what other people are doing with that build though atleast for ideas if you are unsure. I don’t know enough about it to give a definite answer i’ve only played mage.
You want to understand your damage type and multipliers. Multipliers are powerful. (attributes, crit, crit multiplier, penetration, etc). For most builds what you take in your skill tree will change what you’re prioritizing. Also if your base dmg is low, you’re multipliers aren’t going to be nearly as effective as they go by %.
I know you are “forging” out on your own, but if you look at the Build Compendium you will see 4 forge guard builds for 7.10… maybe seeing how they were crafted will give you inspiration about where you should take your individual build…
so yeah i checked and im lvl 74 i go up to 2k paper dps and can now crit 21k aoe and get to about 3k ignites tick relatively fast on the dummy it goes decently and my gear is far from perfect … altough it feels like im pumping a lot of fire damage and it doesnt improve my damage all that much i think what id need is more melee fire damage but the only thing i found that give that was the invoker scorching set ring … which surprisingly is much better than a ring with 50%ish fire 50i%sh elemental dmg which make me belive the place where im lacking is base damage?
note that my forge strike has the nodes for fire damage and fisure and ignite all that mambo jambo… and the 20% against boss… hmm im thinking maybe too little crit multiplier? that would explain sort of…
makes me feel like im doing something very wrong without noticing lol
if any of you have some input how should i go about increasing fire damage on a melee build? so far im trying to get as many multiplicative damg buff with increase melee fire or fire damage. got some crit from passives and about 45% ias … and somewhere around 270% ignite chance on paper prolly more with bonus on skills
yeah ive been doing that to try and help myself out but most people that go fire FG tend to have very niche builds that use very different stat focus then what im doing which would prolly ressemble more a fire spellblade i guess (not sure as i was not stacking ignites although that might change now considering my new found attack speed…)
Cannot help you with a forge guard specifically as I have never leveled one…BUT…
I am not an expert like @Llama8 , @boardman21 etc, but one thing I will point out (and it may already be obvious to you - if so ignore me), is that I struggled with damage on a few characters where I went for massive % damage increases until I then realised my flat/base damage was too low to make any difference (X% boost on nothing is still nothing). Its hard to actually “see” what your flat damage is - which I suppose is part of the problem… Thankfully, dumping some % for flat made a HUGE difference… even as little as 10 to 20 more flat damage of the right type added turned a char from a whimp into a monster dps…
This happened with my spellblade build where I just needed to swap out the right weapon (with the correct base damage) and I almost tripled damage immediately. And yes, it was fire dam vs spell dam vs melee damage… so a similar issue to yours.
hmm ive been looking and other than swaping weapon i don’t see how i can get more flat damage… and ive looked at some other build a leap quake beastmaster shaman video the guy claims doing 120k crit on dummy and he has pretty much worse or equal stats on paper than me… im still trying to figure out where im loosing so much … tough theres also the fact that forge strike hits twice so 18k is one of those hits followed with another non crit hit… still very far from 120k xD
take note armor goes up super fast when i get hit and with sigil i get about 60% dr and 62 health regen per sec. also with all buffs i get up to 3k paper dps and i just took off maybe 100% ignite chance trying to push direct damage … any toughts?
We don’t have the same stats on paper. Playimg shaman comes with almost 80 flat damage every 3-5 seconds and an addition 40 with every attack thanks to passives. It also has tremendous help from a node inside fury leap that allows 180%(or close to) MORE damage against full health mobs and its gurenteed crit.
Forge guard doesmt habe as many flat damage options
Bored waiting for the washing to finish… been looking through tunklabs to see where there are base damage nodes on Forge Guard/Strike etc…
May have missed some but there dont seem to be many flat damage boosts for Forge Guard in passives…Fresh from the Forge gives a little. Skills side - Forge Strike has Temper for 50 total fire damage base. There is a little bit in RoS (Touched by fire) but I dont know what other skills you are using to see if they have any added flat.
So it does look like you are limited to a weapon for most of the flat damage… You may need to find some alternative weapons and just see what happens with large flat dam differences.
nope unless you are that aron guy with Arpg youtube account , altough i saw some of your builds too xD
i know nodes arent the same and primalist might have more but i still have a lot of melee fire damage from skills and increase to melee from nodes as well i mean i could understand if i was what 20-60k under or something similar … but being 100k appart? that sound somewhat major … i have a volcanus with 52 melee fire dmg and 54% increase fire dmg the ring with 13 melee fire
and if my memory is good i get 270% increased damage or melee damage from nodes with another 40% on kill or when hit plus forge strike supposed to be 300% melee damage effectiveness. i mean i know i dont have 120 flat damage added from nodes and that hurts… but shouldnt that 300% sorta make for it ? unless im mistaken if i take 300% to my 77phys and 65 melee fire x3 meaning i get 195fire and 231 phys right there ?
i might be misunderstanding that tooltip on forge strike i cant remember exactly how its written but its something along the lines of forge strike gains 300% benefits from melee damage…
and no vapour you are right about flat damage which is why i tough skills would get 300% increased efficiency from melee damage which would seem balanced from what i understand…
I would recommend getting a crafted top tier axe with over 100 melee physical flat damage and add t5 melee fire damage.
Fury leap and earthquake get this bonus as well. Might be 200% but I believe both are 300%.
Hmm im not at a computer right now to see the exact differences but check both the thumbnail for fury leap amd shamam passives in the below video and you’ll most likely find the huge damage multiplier differences
well i guess if every class has those multipliers then its sort of ridiculous basicaly there no way for FG to do decent damage but its extremely tanky so trying to do a 2hander build on fg wont really work from the look of it … but still there are a couple 2hand focused nodes im guessing warpath was the only skill envisioned when they did that… anyways i guess ill have to thinker another way to go about this… again xD
Done this many times… I get inspired by a unique, an idol or a skill/ailment (trying a Bleed build now) or even something like Dodge and then I build and respec for days… so far 70% of the time I can get it somewhere that looks ok, but by then build has usually morphed away from where I started… (and usually doesnt use the unique that inspired it in the first place - but thats a separate issue).
but hey… thats part of the fun of aRPG games… good luck “forging ahead”…
I know it’s a bit off-topic but anyone knows what are the dummy stats ? In terms of resistance and all ?
As far as I know the dummy is a 0% res target no ?
Cause if that is the case it would be a nice feature to be able to set the dummy stats to see what is the skills will be doing in “real” condition.
The dummy (like most mobs) has no resistance, nor does it have the % damage reduction that mobs get per area level. It would be nice if the dummy got the damage reduction based on the area level (which is your level for the End of Time) though it not having any does make it a good “standard candle” (if I can borrow an astronomy term).
ok i finaly may have found a way to work this out sort of i managed around 45k with the explosion from forge strike so ill try to work around that a bit … might take a bit of gear farming and work around tough my gear is messed up … im still deciding if i wanna use sinforged hammer and get IAS elsewhere but that seems like a decent option going forward. less base damage but i get a more damage on ignited targets now only need to figure out where to get IAS without the sacrifice of damage lol
You wont ever out DPS certain skills like broken Rive though
In terms of actual ‘DPS’ which lasts over a period of time 0 cost skills with attack speed/crits will always win out
You might be doing 45k crits, but my lvl 72 Rive character which I basically stopped playing was able to deal up to 102k crits on a dummy with 200% attack speed with a 2Hander when fully buffed on skill that costs zero mana. So I can attack forever
Forge Strike needs a 3-4x damage buff to feel good