How can you say that when there isn’t even an XP penalty in, yet? It’s all about numbers. Without knowing how much %XP somebody can lose, how could we judge if it is more or less impactful?
And also# people not liking XP penalty in death is nothing troublesome. It’s just opinion.
And due to the nature of each level requries more than the last, the exp death penalty is just not that hrash early/mid levels but because more and more hrash as you appraoch the max lvl.
Even if EHG does implement a exp penalty, it doesn’t mean it’s equally as punishing as in PoE.
Once we have one, peopel could discuss further on it and the value of the penalty or the value of exp requried forcertain lvls could also be adjusted absed on feedback
Just having it exist gives it impact even if it’s small because I visually am reminded it’s there. It makes me want to refine, plan and question my decisions in the passive tree. I think that change in mindset when playing is great.
I think it also puts more value on level 100 as a goal that feels great to get. I think that is wonderful too.
Yeah, I completely get the “the harder the obstacles, the sweeter the victory” stuff and I’m not arguing against it.
I’m just afraid that the punishment can lead to rage quit moments that are the opposite of the sweet victory. For 5 people that happily overcome these obstacles there may be at least 5 people that get frustrated because they can’t (I think it’s even more).
I’d rather have that 5 people only 95% satisfied because the obstacles were too easy, than having 5 others 0% satisfied and 100% frustrated.
I do not know your obsession to WANT a TIME base punishment.
Death penalties in most games are NOT intended to impose time penalty. The “time” penalty is a resulted effect (e.g restart a fight), not the intent. When you lose to a boss in Dark soul & have to refight. It wasn’t intended for you to lose XXmins, it is intended for you to do better when refight the boss. It is the same with say Doom 2016, or pretty much most action games. When you died in an arena fight, you will have to restart from last checkpoint. The idea is NOT to set you back in time. The aim is to make you do better in the next round. That’s why games normally have checkpoints/save not far from a major fight, or after, not 30mins from a fight.
An ARPG is in principle no different from other action games. There is no reason for a TIME base penalty.
Yes, having a death penalty make you play better, farm better gear, skill better etc. Thats why almost every action game has death penalty.
XP loss, or progression loss, however is not common in action games, in fact it is extremely rare.
Hard games, like dark soul series, Doom series, metrodmania games doesn’t have progression lost as penalty. They all used checkpoint/save system like 99% of game.
True and iam glad they wont. The splits they have right now are more then enough for me atleast 
Yeah no hard feelings here 
I like the death penalty in POE, i like it less because its less clear a lot of times why i died.
I cant learn of it a lot of times since i can’t read in the chat what killed me. So if i didnt saw it on screen with all the visual cluttering iam just screwed.
The games you mentioned i played aswell and in those games its clear to me why i died.
The problem i have is when my death seems unfair because of screen clutter or not clear enough visual or audio feedback. Which in my opinion happends to often in POE.
Iam glad LE so far handles visual clutter way better but iam still afraid that it will happen here aswell. I would love to see options to put some effects off or less impactful to see clearer what is happening. Anyways for now iam happy how it is in LE atleast.
Some people in this thread keep mentining the positive effects of XP penalty (inspires to do better, make vicory meaningful, etc.) and others keep mentioning the downsides (demotivation, unjust punishment by indiscriminating game, etc.). Both are right, but they keep talking about their one side of the issue, and it seems as if they’re in opposite camps, and they get upset.
XP penalty and any other penalty mechanic (shattered crafts, resets etc.) are all the same in this: they have both good (intended) and bad (unfortunate) effects on people. Plenty of solutions in that, many implemented in other sports/games and others suggested countless times here and elsewhere.
The Time investment issue is a different one: how much time do you need to spend (on average, disregarding “efficiency” of play for the moment) in order to reach a certain level/achievement/state. Most players want that, and it’s what’s advertized by the game makers, streamers and others who “show off” on the web. Each game has this time limit set by design (defined by length of campaign, movement speed, number of obstacles, drop and crafting chances, trading etc.). Balancing, or rather: maximizing this time number is in the interest of the game maker (more retantion = more profit/utility), realizing that the longer it this time is, the more of the audience you alienize. The streamers are the last to leave, but streamers only play games if their audience is big enough, so there’s a trade-off.
Again: those with more time invested in the game feel it’s unjust for others who invest less time to get as far as they (they protect the emotional value and status of their achievement). Again: solutions for that exist.
Maybe I have a suggestion, reward people for playing better, die less, instead of punish poeple for playing worst via a reward system instead of puishiment system.
*You gain X% increase in exp & Magic find (MF) for every min you did not died until say XX% cap. after 1 hours. YOu lose all xp/MF bonus on death, & need to reearn it via not dying,
&pair it with the reset to last checkpoint on death that 99% of game use.
You can balance to ensure good player reaching lvl100 faster than glass cannons by making the last 8-5 level required more exp.
So if you want to level faster to lvl100 & gain more MF bonus, play better. I think this has a more positive effect, & doesn’t penalise or turn off people with less time to play or/& hate time base punishment.
Some examples from community, I can find more, but I think you get the jess
See 2nd last post on page 4
Feedback and Suggestions - King of Bullshit: 10% death penalty - Forum - Path of Exile
See first post on page 14
General Discussion - Why did you or your friend quit playing POE? - Forum - Path of Exile
Yes, and none of them have quit the game because of it, as you claim. All of your examples have challenges in the current league.
All I’m trying to tell you is that your claim that many people quit because of a death penalty is false. People get frustrated, which you can clearly see in the posts you mentioned, which I understand, because as already mentioned in my other post, the opinions vary there.
As LastBrat mentioned, all systems can have up and downsides which may lead to frustration for certain players. Your title literally dictates “what not to do”, which is a hard take if you wanna back up your claims with anecdotal evidence of 2,3 players who haven’t even quit. Especially because frustrated players have the urge to vent, while happy players just play and enjoy the game.
Your idea for rewarding players for staying alive longer is really great, though!
I do exactly this too, and really don’t like it so much.
Maybe it brings something to the game, I found myself not dying much this league, and had more than 1 character to 90+ before first death, which i was proud of lol
But even though I know a lot about PoE, played it a bunch since synthesis, I get really tired of this system. But really mostly I think it is be course PoE is so buggy, and many deaths can be attributed to bad coding (i am loking at you heist)
But one thing implementing an xp penalty will discourage me from, is “taking that extra level in arena, I know I can do it”, and then I die. I mean, if the xp you get was good enough so it was not a big issue, maybe that would be fine.
i like your points. heres my feedback
In my biased opinion I believe trading shouldnt be too much of an issue since crafting is accessible to ALL players and the crafting shards are quite generous. I spend my time crafting my gear. This game is SSF friendly.
This would split the communuity into even more groups, we already have 4 major groups (excluding masochist), 2 of which would have an economy.
I doubt that EHG would split the community even further based on difference penalties.
hmmm then maybe the decision would be whether or not the current masochist group is willing to adopt this penalty as a new feature and live up to their masochist name
In the first post which I link.
“I know 3 people that stopped playing PoE because of it.”
In the 2nd one
The only friend of mine that played this game quit just a few weeks back for the second time due to death penalty that infuritated him. I can understand that as well, there’s been many threads on it. He’s aware that “You can quit any time if you don’t like it”. Which is exactly what he did.
I am okay if people disgree, criticise, dismiss, even make fun of my opinions. People are entitled to their opinions.
We can dispute how “many” are “many” & the significance in numbers that leave due death penalty for sure.
But I draw the line when people falsefully accused me (or others) of lying (not once, but twice) or something I am not. This is not okay, not against me, or anyone else, in this forum or iRL.
For me both hc and masochist are both very drastic “step ups” in difficulty.
I do occasionally play hc, but would never play masochist.
I really would like to see a death penalty on regular softcore.
SC is where it needs it the most…
Its NOT about death penalty. Its about XP loss as death penalty resulting in significant loss time.
I also asked a question that no one has answered. What is the obsession of “Loss Time” as punishment, & what is wrong with what most action games are implementing now, which is restartingyou back t the latest check/save point.
What makes LE different that required something different, XP penalty, that are not liked by many/some, instead of what most other games have used & widely accept?