I made these points as a discussionpoint of what I find negative about PoE (Feel free to disagree) & hope EHG can at least understand the concerns when working on their game.
One of the dev (in a recent stream) if I recalled correctly mentioned he wass looking inot PoE style death penalty when ask, which concern me. Not say it will be implemented in LE. but I think it is often better to have a discussion on what players feel before something is implement rather than after IMO.
That doesn’t mean EHG need to accept the majority view of players but at lesat they have a ballpark what some of us think. They are the one who made the final decision.
I think they should implement exp penalty as an option that can be turned on when creating a character and have separate leaderboards based on exp loss on/off.
Exp penalty creates a mindset of playing safe content instead of progressing or doing endgame content or testing what your build is actually able to do. I much prefer the death penalty in Monoliths because it makes me want to keep pushing and trying again. With exp penalty I would end up checking my exp bar and then postponing the boss fight because “oh I only need 20% exp to next level”. And as I get more levels the longer it takes to farm that exp until I reach a point of no longer wanting to play because I feel like I’m spending more time exp farming than doing anything fun.
I saw the phrase “If you don’t want an XP penalty, make a suggestion what else you would agree with!”
Easy: NOTHING
For me the current death penalty is ok. Yes, I do count losing 4 Echos a death penalty. I personally don’t need an XP loss on top. And yes, this penalty only applies to that one single endgame system.
“But what about other endgame systems?” Almost as easy: Tell me what the other systems look like, how they work and I’ll share my thoughts and suggestion of a penalty besides XP loss. But as long as nobody knows how other modes look like, you also can’t say that only XP loss is an appropriate punishment.
As long as I like the game in it’s current state, I don’t see why I should make suggestions for a change? I leave it to the XP loss fan fraction to make suggestions, as they/you seem to have an issue with the current state of the game.
For me theres only one single reason to have an XP penalty: Separate the top tier players and give them something to chase. To achieve this the XP penalty has to be harsh so not everybody gets to lvl 100. It has to be implemented in a way that you can’t progress further at some point if you are not skilled enough, your gear is too bad and/or your build is not top notch.
This would be a design decision I can understand. I don’t like it, but I understand the reasoning behind it that I can accept.
What I absolutely would dislike is some half baked XP penalty that doesn’t prevent you from getting max level at some point but justvslows your progress, eating your time and making it just awfully tedious to get to max level instead of preventing you to do it.
I’d rather have a penalty that at some point means I reached the top of my character progress at lvl 95 than have a “less impactful” penalty that let’s me go on crawling to max level.
I don’t need an XP penalty to feel satisfied with achieving things in LE. I also won’t quit playing LE if they implement one. But if I had to choose between a PoE style penalty to separate the boys from the man (or girls from… you get it) or just a mechanic that slows down the progress, I’d choose the first one as it feels better for me personally.
Hell no I don’t represent EHG in any way. These are just my thoughts and I start to think there are some misunderstandings in here. I’m no nativ speaker and my english got pretty bad for my taste.
I think so as well.
Or leave them like they are and make an easy mode or casual mode.
In HC you char is gone if you die once, the mode is dangerous enough like it is right now. On top of it there is already a masochist mode you can play ;).
Lastly and this might upset people a lot buuut… Last Epoch isn’t that hard on normal. Everyone can do it in their own time and pace. You can’t forget that you ruin the game for medium skilled players if you make it easier or that much harder but then again we only talk about an non existend Xp penalty on death :D.
BUT THIS ISN’T ENOUGH IF YOU LOOK AT THE WAYPOINTS AND HOW ECHOS WORK! Soryy I couldn’t resist. I get your point but right now this will set you back 1min - arround 10 min in story. That’s almost like reviving in the same spot from my point of view . For someone who only play 2h tops a day it’s bs to have even a 5 min setback I get it but then again I’m pretty sure a lot of players have higher play times per day and you can’t forget about them. This is a hard nut to crack and I can’t do it that’s why I ask for suggestions every time. Maybe we can work out a middle ground everyone is okay with so EHG has an easy time to find the sweet spot.
The guys and gals from EHG are very special. I’m pretty sure they look at this thread and maybe had a meeting about hte topic already. Rest assured they’ll handle thing in the best possible way and they always listen to their playerbase.
That’s a reasoning I totaly understand but in all honest there is not much difference between a level 85 and a level 100 toon right now at least from my point of view.
Right now I think a lot of possible downsides for death penalties can’t bee seen. Is there an option to rezz players in MP and if so whats the drawback then? How are other engame systems done? Will there be even sanother kind of penalty or do we just make ourselfs mad? And so on and so forth ^^. So far it looks like the majority of people who post here are against death penalties or indifferent when it comes to the topic.
You may have never heard people say it but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Every league PoE players stop in the early 90’s and quit. I wonder how many SC players would continue on towards level 100 and keep playing without the XP penalty hanging over them?
Yes it will make getting to level 100 a lot easier but is that such a bad thing? It might even make GGG more money by keeping players around for longer each league.
Nope. People stated that the current death penalty is ok and doesn’t need to be expanded.
Yeah. Also not much difference between 75 and 85. Or 65 and 75… Why not make 65 the max level?
I think 15 passive points is a huge thing. We could argue if 95 and 100 make a huge difference. 85 and 100 is a lot, imho. Theres some cool stuff on the top of passive trees.
those 15 points… i got them already and most of the time i used it to get a small number of % here and there but that’s a drop in the bucket when you already have xxxx% dmg multis ^^.
I think those last 15 points matter a lot more in LE than in PoE as the top tier nodes in LE can have have some of the best bonuses to a build. That is why I don’t think an XP penalty is a good fit in this game.
you can get to the top tier node without being close to lv100 what. I got everything I wanted at the top of Forge guard at lv70 or so. “Top 15 points” no where make or break a build in LE.
It is a very good system as it is now. My point is that having an XP death penalty making it take ages to get to level 100 would make these niche builds too far away for some players.
If you really have a build where those last 10-15 passive points make a big differrence, having a exp penalty just makes finally reaching those way more impactful.
The excitement of reaching certain milestones is unparalleled compared to a system, where it literallyjust takes enough time.
The mindset in this thread is troubling to me. It’s as if players assume if there was a death penalty others would take a year longer to level, which is odd to me. It makes me really question how much an average player dies playing LE. I expect the average player to be dying maybe a couple times a day, that isn’t going to completely halt progression.
I’m not sure if the “last 15 points don’t break a build” argument is a strong one.
Maybe it doesn’t prevent you from doing a certain build. But they also aren’t useless. Nobody stops at 85 and says “ah, that’s it now, I have all I want. Why even go on?”.
People want to max their builds potential. I don’t want to argue on how much having or not having those points will impact a build. But I want to have that points.
What is the reason that most of the top ladder arena builds are lvl 100 characters? If lvl 85 is almost as good, shouldn’t we see more of a mix of different levels?
Yeah. Just look at PoE, imo that death penalty is pretty brutal the closer you get to lv100. Game is hard I would die multiple times a day but still am able to level. I am not saying it should be this brutal or hard at all, exp death penality doesn’t even have to be harsh, it just has to exist.
