Well said my friend.
I appreciate the detail post,
There is some misrepresentations, like reason for my crotic for XP lost death penalty.
I have detail breakdown on the problem of PoE combat that lead to the one-shot design, but I intended to not overwhelem the alraeyd many pint in this thread.
You made some good points. I just wanted to add recovery being too OP is alos the reason for the one shot design, since you recover so fast, only a big hit, or smaller hits but simulatiously cann kill you.
I am happy so far that LE recovery is not broken yet, with a nice balance between potion & recovery.
You can add freshness to a new season without power creep.
Fortnite does this well. They add new stuff, they will also remove old stuff, & each season has a theme,. This sesaon is Primal, where weapon upgrades required you to hunt animals to get crafting mats to upgrades. You can also combine grenades & bow to make explosive bow!
To balance, they removed rocket launchers, powerful weapons.
And they wrap a story around the theme too that revealed over the cause of the seasons & over to next.
In context of ARPG /LE. LE can have a season where a corrupted angel well corupted the land & the stroyx evloved until you finally fight him in final battlenear end of season. While the sesaon is active, normal items can be corrupted that can give powerful effects on items, but once the season is over, the corruption no longer stay & you have something different took its place, say ability ot have a 6 skill.
So you add freshness, & the mini extra creep only stay one season, & another took its place the next, keeping the game fresh while not induces massive power creep where one power creep get added on top of another like PoE.
Unpopular opinion:
i dont want an a auction house or at least not instead of a player to player trade, this is for a simple reason, i want to be able to trade my items only to my friends sometimes, maybe even “gift” them for a very low price, soo i would need a player to player trade or the option to do private ¿polls? (i am not sure how is called because i am not native), anyways sometimes i just want to gift my items without fees or slow mechanics, if they implement an hybrid system i would be really happy like Wakfu and Dofus does, there is auction and 1:1 trade.
another point i think is a must to be discarded is the “soulbond”/“accountbound” items or bounds after trade because what happen if i buy my (irreal example), Rainbow gloves of wisdow in the auction house and later in game i drop another one with better stat %, i am probably gonna get rid of the older one but sell to the blacksmith npc for a shitty amount of gold is really sad, so probably i would give it to other player, but if is bound to my account i cant do any of that.
This last point is one of the 2 reasons i only play diablo III on ps4 there i can trade in softcore with anyone drop anything and do what i want with my loot without restrictions. (the other one is the live service, i hate to have to pay to only be able to play online).
I’m also in the group that doesn’t think that LE needs an XP penalty on death. Losing echoes is fine as a penalty.
I usually reach around level 93-94 in PoE and then it becomes far too grindy after that. I find that all I do is save up all the challenging content with the highest risk of death until I’ve just gained a level. Bash through all that without caring if I die and then run easier stuff until I level up again. I don’t think this loop an XP penalty creates is very fun to be honest.
I agree that there needs to be a penalty but an XP penalty is not the best solution.
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I hope EHG sees this post and mine specifically too. I am playing this game after leaving POE that I couldn’t even reach Elder or play tier 10 maps. I enjoy LE because its not too complicated and the softcore is not punishing with the level penalty. I think people that are for XP penalty needs to play Hardcore or SSF. Softcore should be a place for players like me; I don’t have time to play this game often enough. I just hope they keep softcore friendly for all players for all sorts of people with life management.
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I would like exp loss as a penalty for death in LE. I think back at one of the things I love to watch during PoE league which is the watching the race to 100. IMO no exp loss would make softcore/ SSF SC races a lot more insignificant. Echo loss is annoying and I hope as the game progresses this isn’t a game design finalized feature to replace exp loss death penalty like people are coining it to be.
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Then have it only for racers then. I am fine if so, or make race HC only. Easy. you die, you are out.
MOF will not be the only endgame system.
We don’t know yet, if all of the different endgame systems will have the possiblity of “progressloss”, depending on how exactly they work.
I really would like to have somethign thatis globally punishing, across all endgame modes.
The different between a exp penalty or any other grave penalty and hardcore is soooo big, losing a character (potentially with an very rare drop unique or anything else that is super rare) vs losing a little bit of time investetd is a massive difference.
Also I play SSF almost exclusively AND i would life to have a exp penalty.
Yea I think it could be good in SSF but casual players like me needs softcore to have no penalty, otherwise this would just be another POE to me. Like I said before some of us needs to manage our own time to play game. I welcome any addition to softcore as long as EHG would consider novice players like me.
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I really do ackknowledge different perspectives and it’s hard to please all player types, that’s why my suggestion would be a penalty that (mostly) affects high end level range, so you are not locked out of build possibilities or content.
I’m not sure if this is possible though Heavy and may not even make sense to try and force all the different end game systems to have the same punishment. What works in one system may not work in another.
Losing a little game progression feels a lot easier to swallow than character progression in an ARPG, but I can understand all the different opinions here.
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We’ll have to see.
If there are specific other penalties for different endgame mdoes, that might work.
But if there is not other penalty incoming i would at least have empowered monoliths to have a greater penalty, since 4 echoes is almsot nothing.
The veryfirst iteration of MOF was losing all progress in a given timeline, which was very hard, maybe too hard.
The 2nd iteration was 7-8 echoes progress lost.
I think this could return for at least empowered monoliths, if there is no other penalty incoming.
But i still think a exp penalty would work for all game modes.
I am not at all in favour of losing XP. If they need a way to distinguish the better players from the masses then give them a positive reward of some kind rather than punishing those who don’t play as well. These kinds of issues are game breakers for me it’s that simple.
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I think a leaderboard with Arena or something like greater rift is FAR better to distinguish the top players as it will be competitive for entire season.
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Yeah I remember that all too clearly and I’m sure it put many players off, including me. I’m glad they changed it but agree it could be increased higher up.
I have faith that the devs will come up with a good solution that hopefully pleases everybody(just as long as it’s not an XP penalty) 
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A consumable trading orb or trade limits would brick the shit out of this (or any) game, no thanks. If trading exists it should be accessible. What would stop the incredibly dedicated players from farming/hoarding trade orbs and having easier access to gear than any casual?
In any game with currency and trade, dedicated players will always have easier access to things. The only result of adding some consumables for trading would be that it would significantly impact and hurt more casual players, whereas the top end wouldn’t be affected whatsoever. This a very bad solution to a trade problem that doesn’t even exist in this game.
If you give players a choice:
- Grind or craft to get upgrades for your character
- Trade to get upgrades for your character
Most players will choose #1. The game should be balanced in a way where getting and crafting upgrades is achievable and fun. This is where one of PoEs MAJOR flaws lies, 99.9999% of drops are shit and without Harvest, you have an incredibly small chance of finding or crafting an upgrade, especially when crafting has such an incredibly high entry-cost and risk for most players. Why would someone risk the 8 exalts they just spent a week or two grinding to craft when attaining the desired result is infinitesimal and you’ll probably lose it all trying? Because of that and the way the economy can be exploited, many people will just grind for currency to trade for items, sit in their hideout trading all day, or run a trading bot to get currency so they can play.
If you make playing the game and getting drops fun, trading will not be 100% necessary like it is in PoE. Forcing players to rely on tradeable currency, fragment, and map drops to play end game creates a trade necessity, which I don’t foresee ever being an issue in this game. You’re trying to limit access to something based on an entirely different ARPG experience, which is useless.
I don’t understand the desire to “warn” EHG about things they shouldn’t do if those things aren’t even in the game in the first place, like ok sure you’re frustrated with some mechanics in PoE but this isn’t PoE. This won’t become your perfect game that will lack any frustrations, it’s going to be built on the vision of the developers and a certain amount of community feedback, not your utopian vision of a perfect ARPG built just for you.
XP penalty is a non-issue. Attaining max level should be incredibly difficult, or else it wouldn’t be exciting or an achievement. XP penalty punishes you in a very straight-forward way for dying and rewards you for playing carefully and building properly. Using PoE for example, the XP penalty only becomes a real issue past level 95, which is already higher than most people get. The vast majority of builds are “finished” around level 90, with level 100 being something a very small % of players achieve. I don’t see a problem with this system, it’s the way most ARPGs are, and there needs to be something that the top 1% finds worth grinding for.
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Well unlike D3 gold doesn’t actually grow on trees in this game so why don’t you just make equipment durability and make that are gold sink instead of losing XP which really really is disheartening just make it a gold sink and be done with it
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I’m okay with a death penelty but only if you don’t gain any xp from mobs that are under your level. I can’t stand it when people want to force something like this on others but then play the best time/effort content where they rush through and can’t even die because it’s so simple but still offers XP.
This could be even changed into something like: after level 80 you only get XP from enemys above your level to spice stuff up because we don’t care right? We want punishment right?
I’m for death penaltys IF there is no way to get XP the cheap way by grinding mobs 9 levels below your toons level and still get 1 xp out of it.
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But “incredibly dedicated” players will have easier access to gear than “casuals”. They spend more time killing stuff at a higher level so they’ll see more drops which are more likely to be good/useable.
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