Upcoming Bugfixes to overperforming Builds

News
470

I feel like this is a discussion that has happened many, many times throughout the years.

And I get it! It feels good when a dev team is interested in player feedback, and even better when they act on it.

But I think it’s been fairly well-established that it doesn’t usually end well.

  1. The “community” that the devs hear from is far from the entirety of the actual playerbase. The vast majority of players in these games don’t bother with the forums or discord. Sure, they might stop by once in a while. They might have joined the discord to see news once in a while. But they aren’t the players that are providing feedback to the devs. The ones who are are the ones who yell the most about it and make the biggest scene. This includes streamers, who are well-known for their ability to make a big scene. For reference, at the time of posting only about 250 people have engaged with this thread.

I’d be very interested to know how many responses EHG got on the survey. I wonder how it would compare to the estimated million that have bought the game. 1%? 5%?

  1. You allude to this in your post: Players don’t always know what they want. We don’t have nearly as much information available to us as the development team does. We don’t know the true intent behind all of the decisions that have been made to make the game what it is. We don’t know what the roadmap is for the years to come. We don’t know what balance changes the dev team is working on for next cycle.

They do. Trust them.

  1. I don’t know if you’ve studied developmental psychology before, but what happens from here is pure operant conditioning theory. Loud and outspoken players communicate to the devs (many in a very negative fashion) what they want to see in the game. The devs acquiesce, reinforcing the behavior of the loud and outspoken players. The loud and outspoken players get LOUDER and MORE OUTSPOKEN the next time they see something they don’t like.

It doesn’t take long until the devs lose control of their game, lest they incur the wrath of the EXTREMELY LOUD and EXTREMELY OUTSPOKEN players.

At the end of the day, EHG has created the game we’re so passionate about. Let them continue to refine it.

471

You got Sacred Blooms off-screening from 2-3 screens away. You have bosses like Hereot with absurd and obnoxious mechanics (Storm Dragging, Degen ICE sphere). Objects, terrain and even mob attacks can completely block your view and cause unavoiadable deaths, and this is the focus of your efforts?.. and it took you this long to do it too.

Thx for fixing an issue that only affected a percentage of the player base. A percentage that had a choice to change builds, or play something else.

472

Looks like their is a lot of hate here. Is leveling a new character annoying? Sure, but its what happens you use characters are league starters to build a good base for another character. This is also why ‘meta’ builds are dumb, play something you think looks cool. Warlocks are still good, just not broken.

473

Man I’ve ran into 2 different bugs while playing in a party with my buddy today, but yeah let’s focus on this bug lol

474

You don’t understand the issue here, do you?

Hint: it’s not about the experiece players who built a character exploiting a blatant bug had, hence your suggestion they “had a choice to change build” has no meaning here.

475

Glad they are fixing bugs…

Fun watching people try to defend using the profane / Bone walls bug like it even makes sense to use the bone walls without the bug.

Either way… all these builds getting “Bug Fixes” will still be the the top tiers of builds.

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476

this patches was related with server issue. Fixing small bugs - 0 patches.

477

So to get this whole story straight,
EHG released a statement shortly after launch stating they dont intend and dont want to bug fix overperforming builds unless something unforeseen happens or the majority of players deems it necessary.

Two Weeks later they launch a survey which, unsurprisingly, deems it necessary to bug fix it mid-cycle now. This survey was not known to the vast majority of players.

So the first great bug fixing that EHG is taking on are bugs that are positive to player power - feels weird given the number of items, skills, passives that are actually not doing anything at all and are clearly bugged, and when fixed would actually give the players positive power.
I suppose they just did not anticipate that people can climb that high in corruption as easily and want to stop and/or delay that now, its what the people want anyways.

And since its the will of the people they can now aswell call anything they want reduced in power bugged and fix it immediately mid-cycle.

Consequently, people will shy away from reporting bugs which make them stronger than intended in fear of getting their discovery bug fixed after a short while and will also shy away from trying new stuff and investing time and currency into unpopular skills, or trying new builds in general because if they find some possible strong interaction chances are high it is a bug and will get bug fixed very soon.

Its something i seriously hoped would not happen in this game, but its the will of the people apparently.

Regarding actual character power:
If you think Warlock or runemaster are incredibly overbalanced have a look at explode ballista rogues for a second…
But i guess they will find out soon enough that something is bugged with their build and needs to be bug fixed.

And I sincerely hope I am completely wrong with everything i wrote and they stop now after this patch with this useless nerfing, sorry bugfixing, of builds just to maintain some sort of imaginary balance and focus on stuff that is actually not working at all - I mean its the first cycle in a mostly singleplayer PVE game after all, not a professional PVP game played in tournaments.

Does it hurt anyone if some people play on a higher corruption than EHG anticipated for a cycle until they sort all the big bugs out and then do proper balancing with actually all skills and passives working in the next cycle?
I personally would definitely prefer this over having bug fixes mid-cycle whenever EHG deems something is too strong for their liking…

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478

if you think you are good at the game… try playing a shaman and see how good all other classes are lol its like facerolling haha ez mode for casuals

479

100% agreed, its like EHG have no vision worth fighting for

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480

Yes,
instead of giving a statement about how they are not gonna change skills just to change them two weeks later based on a survey most people didnt even hear of they should have stated that they are aware of the bugs and they plan on fixing them in the near future. And then fix them.
Would have saved EHG and the affected players 2 weeks of uncertainty regarding what they are actually planning to do regarding those skills.

But hindsight is 20/20, and i doubt they had a clairvoyant at their disposal back then…

481

Good job

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482

I’m mostly with you. That’s why i said, that many players who voice their opinions here don’t really know what they want - they just think they do. I have faith in the devs, that they know how to filter the feedback they get. There’s a lot of reasonable, laid out criticism presented with facts. You shouldn’t completely negate the ppl who just utter their one-liner opinion without thinking twice what they’re actually writing. But i read a lot of posts here that were detailled criticism. Posts like “xyz sucks, change it!” should be heard, but prioritized very low. It’s important to listen to the community, but it’s even more important to filter out reasonable comments.

I haven’t studied psychology, but i know what you mean. I also know, that there’s sth called “psychology of the masses”, so if ppl just outcry enough, more ppl join that chorus simply because it’s the majority of ppl. Also works for streamers and their followers. After that, it’s getting harder and harder and more time-consuming to filter out justified criticism. You basically see that on EVERY game that has a public forum. What the masses want isn’t always right, but still i think it’s important to listen to feedback from the community and let them influence your decision making. Influence, not take over.

483

I’m curious as to what percentage of the active player base participated in the survey. Not because i disagree with the changes but how active community participation is beyond complaining “server down fix now”. any chance of that % or total response being revealed

484

meta chasers BTFO. good work EHG

485

I don’t know if we get any real metrics about that because if they say X ammount of players of Z ammount of copies sold voted for whatever they open up a lot of numbers that they maybe not want to make public.

486

Still waiting on the patch…been 3 days since this was announced.

487

Byeeeeee, have a beautiful time.

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488

So when’s the lich fix? You have to change the balance of the balance in the middle of the season. Follow it to the end.

489

And this is a prime example what happens when you start bug fixing skills for the sake of balancing mid-cycle:

Skill X was nerfed/bugfixed/whatever, so i want skill Y nerfed/bugfixed/whatever as well!

And people demanding this are not wrong… if you decide to do balance changes mid-cycle because a survey demands it from you (and those bug fixes are also some hefty balance changes to the respective classes, however hard people try to convince me that this is not the case) then you actually should have to pull through and do it properly for all skills that are overperforming, not just cherry-pick the ones that the community cries about - that would then be actual balancing.

Congratulations, you openend pandoras box, now try to close that damn thing again!