The Warrior Class - A suggestion

As with my Traveler class suggestion, I understand that this will take a long time to implement if ever, as the devs have other plans lined up in the immediate future. I do hope however that people will like the following concepts and that they will inspire future classes in Last Epoch. This suggestion inculdes a few skills, concepts and mechanics and I would love inputs with additional ideas.

This is my idea for the Warrior Class as it could be implemented by Last Epoch. The way I imagine it is as the opposite number of the Mage class in Last Epoch. The Mage is primarily focused on casting spells but has a melee mastery as well. The Warrior will be something similar, with 2 masteries focused on melee combat and 1 mastery focusing on casting. Base skills will include mostly melee attacks with a couple of spells. Masteries will include the Barbarian, the Beast and the Dragon Knight. Deals Physical and Elemental damage. Main attribute: Strength.

Barbarian type skills will focus on the use of weapons. Beast type skills will focus on the Unarmed effect, which will require the Warrior to be unarmed in order to use them. Dragon Knight type skills will focus on the conjuring of magical effects mostly relying on his shield.

Base skills:

Swing: Swings the Warrior’s weapon in an area in front of him. Hitting an enemy grants a stack of Madness. Each stack of Madness grants 5% attack speed and causes 1% of the damage the player inflicts to be reflected back to him. Conversion nodes include: Swing is now a Fist and can only be used while unarmed - deals more damage - Fist does not scale with weapon stats; Fist now slams the ground for less AoE damage.

Charge: Charges forward and swings his weapon while he charges. Stops the charge after a number of successful swings (swings which hit an enemy). Counts as a traversal skill. Conversion nodes include: Charge makes you move slower and have a larger amount of swings before ending the skill - no longer counts as a traversal skill; can now change direction mid-cast; can now be tied to other skills and casts them instead of swinging (swinging here does not mean the Swing skill).

Head Bash: Hits all enemies in front of the player using the Warrior’s head. Scales with equipped helmet. 10% of the damage dealt is reflected back to the player. Conversion nodes include: knocks back enemies and stuns them; charged for 1 second - more damage, knockback and stun; Head Bash now uses the player’s entire body to attack - scales with body armor instead - more damage reflected to the player; Head Bash now slams the ground dealing AoE.

Boulder Throw: Hurls a boulder at enemies. Conversion nodes include: Boulder Throw is now an ice spell and scales with spell ice damage; rocks explode outwards and deal shrapnel damage to enemies; the player now places a boulder on the ground which rolls towards the enemies - less initial damage but scales with each enemy hit; instead of throwing a boulder it now throws small rocks in a larger AoE; throwing rocks don’t deal damage but they encase an enemy in a boulder - the player can destroy the boulder for massive damage with specific skills.

Wall: Combo skill. The Warrior slams the ground with his weapons and causes a wall to form. The wall pushes back close enemies as it forms. The player then hits the wall with his weapon to cause it to move forward and hit enemies along it’s path. When a part of the wall hits an enemy it deals damage and is destroyed. Parts of the wall which do not hit an enemy continue until they expire. Conversion nodes include: the Wall now pushes enemies along its path - is not destroyed but deals less damage; the wall is now destroyed on the second hit throwing projectiles and damaging enemies; Wall now creates a second wall 15 meters away and the 2nd hit causes the 2 parts to close in on each other - deals more damage and enemies can only escape to the side.

Shield Firewall: Spell. Requires a shield. The Warrior bashes his shield with his mainhand weapon and causes it to emit a wave of fire. Applies 1 stack of ignite. Conversion nodes include: flames now stick to the ground, burning and applying ignite to enemies who pass through them; the flames on the ground now ignite the Warrior as well, granting him Berserk for the duration of the ignite - Berserk grants increased movement speed, damage and reduces all resistances and armor; the Warrior now stabs his shield with his main weapon and channels Dragonbreath dealing fire DoT all around him; Dragonbreath’s AoE now grows each second but drains increasingly more mana; Dragonbreath now spawns two fire pillars around the player, one moving clockwise and the other counter-clockwise.

Mastery: Barbarian
The Warrior focuses on inventive and proficient use of his weapons to prevail in combat. Skills also benefit from Dexterity.

Skills:
Mastery Skill:
Chains: Attaches chains on the Barbarian’s weapons for his next 3 attacks. The Barbarian now uses the chains to manipulate his weapons instead of holding the weapons directly. Melee abilities with chained weapons can be cast at a range but they still count as melee. More damage and attack speed based on how far the attack lands. Conversion nodes include: enemies who are hit by chained weapons are now dragged back to the Barbarian after he pulls his weapons back (weapons are automatically pulled back after each attack) - the next chained weapons attack from the same cast of Chains against these targets retains the damage and attack speed of the previous chained weapons attack; the 3rd attack now causes the weapons to crash into the ground and the Barbarian uses the chain to jump to that location - Chains is now a traversal skill; upon landing the Barbarian now casts Head Bash/Wall. Unique Item: Chains is now a channeled ability. The Barbarian grabs the chain and starts spinning his equipped weapon(s) around him. The Barbarian cannot move while channeling this ability. The range of the spin increases each second. Enemies hit by the weapon take 50% more damage, enemies hit by the chain take 50% less damage. When the player stops channeling the ability the Barbarian will crash the weapon into the ground at the location of the cursor and jump there. Can no longer cast additional abilities on landing. 1 second cooldown. Counts as a traversal skill.

Sharpen: Requires dual wielding. The Barbarian grinds his weapons against each other to sharpen them. Melee attacks after sharpening have added melee physical damage and physical penetration for 3 seconds. Can stack up to 3 times. Conversion nodes include: if the Barbarian has used an elemental skill before Sharpen, then Sharpen will also grand added melee damage and penetration for that element - only takes into account the last skill that was cast; Sharpen now creates sparks which deal fire damage (fire damage from this node can receive additional fire damage and fire penetration from Sharpen). Unique Item: Instead of sharpening his weapons, the Barbarian now bashes them against each other. The weapons pulse and deal massively increased damage for their next 4 attacks. After 4 attacks the weapons break and they are respawned after 3 seconds. The Barbarian is unarmed in the meantime and can only use abilities which are converted to have the Unarmed requirement.

Lightning Strike: The Barbarian lunges to a nearby enemy with great speed and deals lightning and physical damage. Conversion nodes include: Lightning Strike now also summons a Thunder to strike at the enemy; it now pierces through opponents and lands the Barbarian right behind the first enemy hit; Lightning Strike now brings you back to your starting location - counts as a traversal skill - increased movement speed during the cooldown; Lightning Strike deals 3 quick hits in a succession. Unique Item: Lightning Strike now strikes the ground in front of the Barbarian. It sends lightning tendrils to up to 3 enemies which chain to up to 9 enemies. Enemies are shocked for 3 seconds. Enemies shocked by this ability take more damage.

Ferocious Attack. A fast melee attack. Has a standard attack speed which does not scale with weapon attack speed. Conversion nodes include: Ferocious Attack is now a channeling skill and lunges to enemies; if an enemy has been damaged from the warrior with all the damage types native to the Warrior (fire, cold, lightning and physical) in the last 5 seconds, that enemy receives more damage from Ferocious Attack; Ferocious Attack now lodges the weapon at enemies on hit and removes it before performing it again, dealing damage a second time. Unique Item: Ferocious Attack’s hits are now always chained. Has a dual-wielding and a double-handed variant. When dual wielding, the Barbarian will attack one enemy with one weapon, lodge his weapon to them, jump to their location, throw the second weapon towards a nearby enemy, jump to the new enemy and deal damage again to the first enemy (or group of enemies) when he removes his weapon from them. With a double-handed weapon he will perform the same process with the following changes: attack, lodge, jump, dislodge, target a new enemy, repeat. In this mode the Barbarian will also cast Swing when he lands.

Mastery: Beast
The Warrior uses his animalistic strength to deal massive damage to his enemies. The mindless rage he goes into causes him to disregard his defences. A nice spin for this mastery would be to also give it passive debuffs instead of only passive bonuses (for example more health and damage, permanent penalty on armor and resistances, increased DoT taken). Certain skills require to NOT have a weapon equipped.

Skills:
Mastery Skill:
Weapon Throw: Throws his weapon towards enemies. The hit causes enemies to bleed. The hit scales with weapon stats. The weapon returns to the Beast after 4 seconds. During that interval the Beast is Unarmed. Conversion nodes include: the weapon now bounces at enemies before it returns - if it does not find an enemy within range to bounce to it remains on the ground; the weapon on the ground now pulses each second, damaging the enemies within range - scales with weapon damage; the weapon no longer bounces but deals explosion physical damage on impact. Unique item: Two two-handed weapons that can be dual-wielded together but not with other weapons, off-hand catalysts or shields. On using Weapon Throw, the weapons now continually travel around a range from the player, hitting enemies while traveling until they return. The weapon on the off-hand slot does not benefit other skills. One weapon grants increased duration of the Beast being unarmed, the other causes both the weapons’ hits to deal more damage. The Beast can only benefit from the passive bonus of the weapon equipped in the main hand.

Hoof: Irrelevant of carrying a weapon. The Beast slams the ground with it’s hoof (leg), slows enemies hit and causes damage in an area around the player. Each hit has a high stun chance. Conversion nodes include: the skill is now channeled; increased area per second channeled; the Beast now moves during channeling at a slow pace - does NOT count as a traversal skill; Hoof now uses both legs with a small jumping motion but causes the Beast to take damage as well; it has a chance to summon a Wall or a Boulder with each hit - the Wall or Boulder auto-target the nearest enemy - double chance if the skill uses both legs; Hoof now draws enemies in. Unique Item: Hoof now leaves behind the Mark of the Beast. Mark of the Beast repeats the Hoof’s hit wherever it is placed. Can have up to 4 marks at once. Repeated Hoofs have a lower chance to summon Walls or Boulders.

Body Throw: Requires to be Unarmed. Requires a target. The Beast throws itself directly to enemies dealing AoE damage. Damage scales with Body Armor. A percentage of damage is returned to the player. Conversion nodes include: inflicts Bleed; shreds armor; can now channel to keep bouncing between available enemies; now also casts Head Bash on hit; now also throws a Boulder which travels at the same speed with the Beast at the same direction - does not work if boulder throw has been converted to a spell. Unique Item: The defensive aspects of your Body Armor are now applied as debuffs to enemies hit (for example, if the armor grants +100 life and +100 armor, hitting enemies with Body Throw will cause them to temporarily have -100 life and -100 armor). Effect is 10x for bosses. Can stack up to 10 times.

Primitive Roar: The Beast unleashes a roar. Enemies affected will deal less damage and receive ailments per second according to the player’s chance to inflict on hit from all sources. Application of ailments chance granted by weapons persists even when the player is unarmed. Lasts for 4 seconds. Cannot stack. Conversion nodes include: Primitive Roar now also applies stacks of slow; the Beast deals more damage while the roar is active and it is unarmed. Unique Item: Primitive Roar no longer applies slow. Instead it will grant all enemies in the vicinity haste and cause them to charge towards the Beast. The enemies will only start attacking and casting their abilities when they are within melee range of the Beast.

Mastery: Dragon Knight
The Warrior employs dragon magic to boost his offence. Dragon magic is often unforgiving even for its user. Certain skills require a shield. Skills also benefit from Intelligence.

Skills:
Mastery Skill:
Scales of the Ancients: Grants the Dragon Knight’s skin scales of dragons. Temporarily boosts strength and intelligence. Grants increased spell damage. Conversion nodes include: scales now cause flat damage and % of damage to be reflected to enemies. Unique Item: Grants the Dragon Knight the Wings of the Dragon. When Scales of the Ancients is active, evade becomes a very fast moving skill with 3x the range (kind of what Palarus or Osprix Zealots do when they jump). Every spell is double-cast. If there is only one enemy close to the Dragon Knight, both spells are cast at the target location. The second cast costs 50% of mana and deals 50% of the damage.

Icefall: Requires a shield. An Ice Dragon causes hails of ice to drop around the Dragon Knight. The Dragon Knight holds his shield up to protect himself from the barrage. Icefall deals hit damage to surrounding enemies. Hits that are deflected by the shield cause the hails of ice to drop next to the player, dealing increased damage. Conversion nodes include: Icefall now follows the Dragon Knight; every hail of ice that falls on the ground after being deflected by the shield now causes an ice explosion (a sub-skill); hails of ice now all fall on the shield; hails of ice now are not being deflected by the shield and deal more damage - the Dragon Knight is also damaged; Icefall is now converted to Thunderfall. Unique Item: Hails of ice now all fall on the shield, they are absorbed and charge it with each hail. The Dragon Knight does not benefit from the shield while absorbing hails of ice. When Icefall expires, the Dragon Knight auto-casts Ice Break (a sub-skill similar to Shield Bash) to nearby enemies every second. Damage and number of Ice Breaks depends on the duration of Icefall. Half benefit from the second cast if the Scales of the Ancients Unique Item is also equipped. If Icefall has been converted to Thunderfall it now autocasts Electric Strikes. Electric Strikes deals damage at a larger area.

Burning Shield: A Fire Dragon immolates the Dragon Knight’s shield. Drains mana each second. Can be toggled on and off. Has a minimum duration of 4 seconds. Attacks against the Dragon Knight cause fire damage to be reflected back to the attacker. Instances of DoT will also reflect damage. Conversion nodes include: every time the Dragon Knight is hit the Burning Shield retaliates with a Fire Pulse; Burning Shield is always active, no longer retaliates damage and is now a castable skill - upon casting the Dragon Knight will bash his shield releasing a Fire Pulse; after receiving 10 hits the damage reflected increases and the Dragon Knight gets 1 stack of ignite for every hit he receives - amount reflected and stacks of ignite received increase every 10 hits - hits from rares count as 3x and hits from bosses count as 10x. Unique Item: Burning shield now stores all of the hits received. Hits still deal normal damage to the Dragon Knight after applying modifiers (shield included). Upon reaching 50 hits, Burning Shield releases 5 Fire Pulses. Each Fire Pulse deals its normal fire damage and applies 80 stacks of ignite to enemies. 5 seconds cooldown before Burning Shield is able to start storing hits again. The equipped shield does not benefit the player during that interval. The double-cast from the Scales of the Ancients unique has no effect on the number of Fire Pulses cast.

Combined Arms: Dragon Knight attaches his main hand weapon to his shield. Both weapons receive a 10% buff on their stats. Skills cast during United Arms cost 5% more mana. Does NOT count as unarmed. Cannot wield another main-hand weapon. The Dragon Knight attacks with elemental attacks from his shield. A fire attack which throws bouncing fireballs which bounce for 4 times in random patterns around the player; it targets enemies behind the Dragon Knight less often. An ice attack which spawns ice spikes from the ground, prioritising enemies far away from the player. A lightning attack which chains between enemies and summons a thunder to strike at the last enemy it hits. Conversion nodes include: eliminating one of the attacks in order to focus on the other two; enemies who receive an ice attack take more fire DoT and are more likely to be stunned by a lightning attack plus damage on stun - enemies who receive a fire attack make the next lightning attack to hit the last two enemies with a thunder (can hit the same enemy twice if there are few enemies) and are more likely to be frozen by an ice attack - enemies who receive a lightning attack attack spread all their ailments to 2 nearby enemies and receive double the amount of ailments from the next fire attack. Unique Item: A sword which is already attached with a shield. When dealing a critical attack from any skill, there is a chance that a Dragon will throw a Fireball, Lightning Strike or Hail of Ice on the Dragon Knight’s shield, according to which element dealt the critical strike. The Dragon Knight absorbs the attack and throws out a Combined Arms attack.

That’s all I have, thanks for reading through!

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I dunno, this sounds a lot like Primalist and Sentinel already.

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A couple of skills have similarities, mostly on Dragon Knight, but I don’t know if that’s a lot.

Swing is already in the game.
Charge is already in the game.
Boulder throw is basically avalanche
Shield Firewall is basically Shield bash
Lightning strike is basically Gathering Storm
Ferocious attack sounds like warpath + void cleave
Weapon throw is already in the game, it’s called javelin
Primitive roar is already in the game, it’s warcry

Not trying to be a jerk, just that I think we need more creative and innovative suggestions for future masteries and abilities.

my gosh. Some people have a lot of free time :smiley:

Apparently so do you if you have the time to try and mock people being passionate about a hobby.

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hei hei. You don’t need to be the knight in shiny armor.

Probably OP can take a simple poke and if not - can talk for himself.

So here’s me, talking for me:

Knights in shiny armor haven’t gone down and dirty with their opponent yet.

History shows, I’m more than willing to.

And frankly, I am not a fan of OP’s idea, it’s too much Sentinel/Primalist and not enough Barbarian to make a distinction, but I defend his right to have an idea and throw it out there. It takes balls to be open about your ideas.

You, on the other hand, have contributed nothing to the topic at hand so far.

So yeah, I’ll defend people offering ideas even if I disagree, and I’ll often even argue why it’ll probably won’t ever see the light of day, but one thing I’m NOT ok with is attacking the OP himself rather than their idea. That’s just bullying.

Enough simple pokes can bring a man (or woman) down, death from a thousand paper cuts works on people’s spirits more than their bodies. So please show some respect to your fellow player and take your childish behavior elsewhere.

5 Likes

I mean, ok, a couple of things here:

A) Definintely not suggesting EHG to copy-paste whatever I have here. My idea is to give back to the game some of my inspiration, if they pick up even one thing I’ve written I’ll be happy. Hell, even if they read it, I don’t care.

B) Let’s talk a little about existing similarities in the game. We have Elemental Nova from the Mage and Tempest Strike from the Primalist. They are very similar, an elemental attack consisting of fire, ice and lightning damage. You could argue that since we have one, the other is redundant. However, this is what EHG does best, giving the skills different ways of being applied and different effects. One is a spell which can be cast on the player or at a target location if you unlock a node and you have to unlock specific elements. The other is melee and you can eliminate elements, summon a totem which performs it etc. This is one of the things that make this game so good, in my opinion.

Or, you have Shadow Daggers and Burning Daggers from the Rogue. You could argue that you have one effect so you don’t need the other and it’s better if there’s a different thing. But again, they have different ways of being applied, scaling in some different ways and different uniques they benefit from. Obviously one is Godly and the other doesn’t have a build that I’m aware of at least, but they are there.

C) You mention for example that since we have Javelin we don’t need Weapon Throw. But they will be different skills. One can apply Electrify, used with idols to auto-cast Smite, use it with a Battle Standard, pair it with Judgement with a unique spear etc. Weapon Throw as I described it is a different skill, plays differently, gives the Unarmed effect etc. It’s not about if a skill or a variation of it already exists in the game, it’s can we use a similar concept in a differen way.

Thanks man but it’s honestly ok, I do that with a lot of things I’m passionate about and there’s always someone who will post something along the lines of how ridiculous me or my idea is. It bothered me the first time and then that was it :slight_smile:

2 Likes

It isn’t just about you.

Maybe someone reading his response gets scared of posting their own idea, out of fear of being laughed at. It’s also for them.

And it’s also for me. I don’t want an environment where people trying to be constructive are being put down. Pushing others down is the shittiest way to make yourself feel better and we should strive to be beyond that, both in Eterra and on Earth.

3 Likes

While I have you here, can you offer some opinion? Someone else also said that it reminds too much Sentinel/Primalist and I want to get a better sense at how exactly.

Well, first of all you’re designing a melee Strength character, so Sentinel & Primalist are the archetypes it needs to be different from.

For the base skills, Swing sorta sounds like the way Multistrike or even Firebrand works (and I wouldn’t add negative effects to a starter/basic skill), Charge is sort of a Werebear Rampage, Head Bash = Shield Bash, Wall sounds like a Shaman skill akin to Upheaval & Earthquake, Shield Firewall reminds me of Smelter’s Forge. So you’re basically building a Werebear + Forge Guard combo. The Boulder is a nice idea, but it fits the Primalist aesthetic already, especially if you spec full phys Avalanche.

As for the Masteries …

Your Barbarian sounds a lot like a non-minion Forge Guard: a weapons master.

The Beast, that’s just Werebear who can yeet things.

Dragon Knight, firstly wouldn’t fit Intelligence as much if you’re trying to build around dragon magic. As most of the skills you describe here are Shield-related, we’re coming very close to Paladin as well. If we’ld have a Warrior-like class with the above ideas, you’ld probably build this Mastery as a Dragonborn or Sorcerer from DnD (so with Attunement=Charisma) and describe all the different Masteries as his years in weapon knowledge, his dragon ferocity, or his ability to tap into elemental magic as dragon.

Lastly, you’re going way too far into details and complexity. You should first flesh out the base concept, then the generic skills, their key-node changes etc. and only THEN start thinking about numbers and buff effects. A tree has a starting trunk and branches afterwards, a bunch of branches heaped together is just firewood. So start with core ideas first, get a good trunk, then try and add ideas that deviate from that afterwards. Especially all the combos and buffs will just scare off people, introduce it to us like you’ld expect the game to introduce it to players.

Here is how I’ld build up the class:

Dragonborn; Since the Ancient Era, myths have been told about rare unions between Dragon and Human, resulting in a being with the form of a man, but the power of a dragon. It turns out those myths were founded in a source of truth…

Mastery - Artifact Hoarder
The Artifact Hoarder has spent eons travelling, gathering an arsenal of powerful weapons, often regardless of the wishes (or knowledge) of the previous owner. Stand between him and his latest prize and you’ll find out what his arsenal has in store for you! Style: Weapon Master, throw abilities use a chain to recall their precious artifacts. Uses Dexterity & some Intelligence

Mastery - Berserker
Through years of study and meditation, the Berserker has learned to tap into their Dragon blood, altering their body to be more like their ferocious ancestors without losing their humanity. Style: Unarmed(Claws) Barbarian archetype, primal/animalistic buffs here could work with drawbacks, as a struggle to not be overcome with Dragon Blood. Uses Dexterity & Attunement (basically Werelizard)

Mastery - Dragon Sage
For a Dragon Sage, the real treasure is knowledge. Their understanding of offensive magic is beyond even the foolish dreams of men, while their survival relies on the draconic blood that courses through their veins. Style: Battle-mage, I’ld go mostly Fire & Lightning, with Poison conversions more than Ice. Defensively, go more for Endurance/Armor & Block rather than Ward. Uses Intelligence (Offensive) & Dexterity/Attunement (Defensive)

Bonus cosmetic / Unique shield look: A giant dragon scale.

So as you can see, that’s my trunk; a base from which the rest can grow. I specifically tried to add in Dexterity to distance them from Sentinel/Primalist, as it’s currently the stats with only 1 class built around, and as loot lizards have proven, they can be quick & nimble as well. For example, you could have the Hoarder have a fast-attacking melee ability that uses random weapons from his stash, doing random things. You can go a bit more magic-y by replacing the chain with magic throwing the weapon out like a boomerang instead of a straight line. The Berserker could have a passive ability more like Holy Aura or Falcon, where you customize his body to have stronger claws, or thicker skin, better resistance to Dragon Blood …

By now, you’re probably already thinking of ways you could fit your own ability ideas or even new ones into these masteries, even without me explaining a single skill. And that’s the design order you should do.

Once you got the core concept design, you can work on ways to implement ideas into base functionalities. e.g. the Berserker, how do you gear him without weapons? Scale Dexterity into Claw/weapon damage? Or only use weapons as stat-sticks and ignore weapon speed/range, but nothing else? … How can the Dragon Sage / Dragon Knight tie magic & shield together without being Paladin? Paladin is in it’s core melee swings with healing spells, so avoid that overlap with offensive spells (hence no cold spells because Freeze) and use gear scaling to offset. Do you want to scale Block, or just use aesthetic and convert block to DR through passives? … Depending on that last part, you could drop either Dexterity or Attunement for Dragon Sage, depending on the final concept.

If you have your functionality ideas in place, go over the skills again, which ones no longer fit, or just are too complex for players? Which ones are core, what others wouldn’t you mind having access to as other masteries?

After that, well, it’s numbers time, but that’s pretty much a point where you’re ready to implement the class into the game already.

Edit: Cleaned up part on Dragon Knight to be more coherent after a re-read.

3 Likes

I don’t think tempest strike and elemental nova are very similar. These two are pretty distinct aside from both being AOE elemental abilities.

Just to reiterate, I appreciate your suggestions. Personally, I would like to see more creative masteries added. I think one of LE’s strengths is giving us familiar builds with a twist, like Hammerdins, Werebears, etc. I think whichever new masteries we get in future will likely be more strange than we are expecting. Unless we get a Barb

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I had the idea of a Barbarian mastery which requires weapons and uses Unarmed as a debuff, a Beast mastery where you want to be carrying weapons but figure out ways to unequip them via skills (or just walk around without) and a Dragon Knight mastery where you need a shield to channel magic. It sounded pretty distinctive in my head, but I guess if people disagree then the fault is with the suggestion. Thank you for the comments anyway. :slight_smile:

It’s tough to convey warmth through text, but I’m glad that you are seeking to provide suggestions to EHG for things to add. Even though I disagree with some of the suggestions. I think the dragon knight is the best of the 3 suggestions, as it stands more apart from existing builds and has some flare. It would be cool to have a class that attracts dragons to it and borrows their power, I think it could be a visually interesting class.

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Ok, I got a few things:

Wasn’t meant as a starter skill, I just came up with some things that fit the idea in my head. I did the same with all the skills in order to make them fit into the idea I had.

The way I imagined it (and maybe I should have explained it better) is as follows:

Barbarian: Needs to be carrying weapons to attack. We use the Unarmed effect as a debuff to certain abilities.

Beast: He mostly requires to be Unarmed, so you need to figure out ways to become unarmed (via skills or just walk around without weapons) and you deal a lot of damage but some of it is reflected back to you.

Dragon Knight: He is using dragon magic but needs a shield to channel it, because it’s just so destructive.

Those seemed like distinct enough to me that I would put them in a suggestion. Maybe it’s inherently flawed, maybe I didn’t explain it well enough, maybe I didn’t go into as much detail as I should have.

Regarding similarities between skills, there are already a lot in the game. You have the Sentinel for example who has Rive, Multistrike and Void Cleave. Those seem like they are pretty close to me, as they are all for example basically melee attacks. The variety though does not come from having only skills which are distinct from each other (like the Acolyte has for example) but from the way that you can play with them.

Or you have Forge Strike, Judgement and Erasing Strike. All of them are heavy AoE abilities but they play differently, you can use them in different ways and make completely distinct builds out of them. So, thematically there are only so many things that you can do.

Further on that, you can basically fit every skill in every game into very specific categories. Melee or range? Spell or attack? Single target or AoE? Instant cast or normal cast? Charged or not? Channeled or cast? Aura or single cast? Lingers or not?

Further further on that, since D1 there are only so many archetypes that you can choose from. The original ones were Warrior, Rogue and Mage. Then at some point we also got shapeshifters and healers and that was pretty much the end of it. Everything that came after that was just a variation on these archetypes. Necromancers are just dark Wizards, Hunters are Rogues with spears, Spiritborns are Druids who don’t transform etc, the Barbarian is a strong and fast warrior, the Sentinel is a more defensive warrior, the dragon Knight is a Druid who uses dragons instead of bears, the Paladin is a warrior healer and so on.

Now, you may also say, ok, but EHG has been pretty inventive with their stuff so far. I, personally, haven’t seen Swarmblade or Falconers for example in anything else. I don’t have much experience with other games but I’ve played D4 and PoE and I see things here that I don’t see there. So, we want EHG to continue to innovate with future classes and the Warrior idea is just not it. Ok, can’t really say much on this, I know that many of the skills I posted are mostly just variations on stuff that we have seen before, no argument there.

In conclusion:

Regarding skill similarities: Yes, and I can name you a lot more skills which are currently in the game that have a lot of similarities already within them. I don’t think that there is much that can be done about that and I’m not so sure there should be a lot done about that. It’s just the nature of these games, a lot of things will look a lot alike.

Ragarding similarities with other classes: Obviously the good folks at EHG can do it a lot better than I can. This was kind of like a hobby to me, coming up with fan fiction stuff for a game I love. I’m sure that when we get barbs and beasts and whatnot it’s going to be a lot better than whatever I came up with.

Lastly:

First of all I would never go into passive trees and numbers. I don’t have the knowledge or ability for it. On the other hand that is exactly the process I followed. I came up with the concept as I described it above with the 3 distinct (in my head) masteries and then I came up with skills for them. When writing the skills I just wrote whatever came to mind, thinking about the differences between the masteries and how I could apply them to different skills. I certainly don’t think we will ever get this exact thing in a million years and I’m sure there’s something a lot cooler in store for us. But, if I was able to give even a little inspiration to the folks, I’m happy with it.

Thanks for the replies, hope you 're well!

See, this is already part of what you were missing before.

Just describe the vibe and direction before and people will read the skills in the same mindset as you are writing them. The only thing that’s missing is the concept that binds them.

Let’s build around that Berserk debuff from your Shield Firewall:

The Barbarian / Weaponmaster would favor control, and his big abilities would trigger the “Berserk” debuff, reducing defenses and at a certain amount of stacks, his ability to wield weapons(Unarmed status). The Beast (I’ld call this one the Barbarian) would embrace this debuff, with tons of leech & endurance to compensate the lack of armor etc. further up in his skill tree. This would also solve the weapon stats issue for the class, so no need to create a lot of mechanics around gear/inventory just for 1 class. The Dragon Knight would probably be the balanced one, where spells do more damage and cost more per stack, some requiring a shield as well. I would also very much stick to a limited amount of negative effects to track. Nobody is going to play a class if they have to juggle 7 different effects and if they mess up, they die. That just punishes mistakes rather than reward good play.

As for skills being the same, Rive is a 3-part combo, Multistrike has a stacking buff and Void Cleave has a weapon requirement & CD. I think those are already inherently different.

For that second list, those are all big hits yes, except one summons minions, the other does things when you kill stuff with it, and the third creates a lingering effect on the ground. Within their respective concepts they are the “big hitter”, yet without writing their names, you already know which ones I meant.

There are some skills in LE that are alike, such as Rive & Blade Flurry, Multistrike & Firebrand, but because their base class attribute are different, you already start off facing a different direction. Your Lightning Strike for example read mostly like Fury Leap to me. The Charge idea is also very similar to Rampage or Lunge, both Strength skills. So how do you make it different? Maybe add a “pinballing” mechanism to the baseline, doing a dashing strike and propelling off them, increasing damage per strike and pushing them away. Nobody who hears “pinball through mobs” thinks Rampage, at best maybe a specific node within Surge (and that’s zigzag, not targetted!) This is especially important when you don’t have any concept art, like a studio dev could get made, so your description needs to invoke that image in itself.

As far as numbers goes … in your description of Burning Shield, you used 10 numbers to explain the skill. One of the things you wrote was “hits from rares count as 3x and hits from bosses count as 10x”. I’m gonna be honest with you, if you’re pitching an entire class concept, nobody cares about rare & boss distinctions like that. Just say something like “Fire Shield skill: Mana draining aura that explodes as fire damage and applies ignites around you when you block. Conversion option can turn it into a casted buff that lasts X seconds, or a permanent passive aura. Skill tree allows you to reflect or absorb certain types of damage.” How much damage and ignites, that’s for after your concept is approved. Less twigs, more trunk :wink:

(Side-note: Uniques are WAY down the list on design and irrelevant to the design, the class/skill needs to stand on its own without specific items propping it up)

Overall, I think you’ve explained too much details about how it’ld work, and not enough about how you want it to feel to players, how it fits cohesively together.

Sorry if this turned into “Pitching concepts 101” lesson, but you did ask for my opinion! :laughing:

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Nah man, that was plenty good, I’ll run it by you the next time I have a suggestion :smile:

Sure, as long as you’re aware I usually charge an hourly rate :money_mouth_face: