I think the problem is that people are discussing this without including their classes and builds in the discussion, which is resulting in people trying to compare apples to oranges. Maybe EHG has access to metrics of Lagon fights and can sort them based on class and do something based on that info.
I understand that the less-tanky classes need to prepare for endgame just as much as the tankier builds, but maybe there’s something EHG can do to either make Lagon a tad easier for those in the campaign, or put some other gate in front of Lagon so he’s not such a wall.
That said, my biggest gripe with Lagon isn’t any of his mechanics, it’s that the 3rd phase is 60% of the fight. The fact that my travel skill doesn’t push me all the way across the screen like other class’ skills do puts me at a disadvantage, and okay, I can accept that as part of the class I chose, but I also don’t have the best cooldown and I’m not going to put mods into skill cooldowns just for 1 fight. Maybe if my minion icons were down by the skill bar instead of the top of the screen I could shave a few microseconds off looking around the screen, but really I’d rather they just make it so we can attack his face again so I don’t have to travel 2x as far across the screen just to turn around and run back without having time to get off a single hit.
I haven’t rage quit, and I’m still here trying to make this boss fight better for everyone. What do you have to say now?
Very good point. Removing tentacle stuns could be another way to make the fight better…
I guess you’re not a rage-quitter? But “better” implies a value judgment.
I don’t believe making the fight easier or less complicated will make it or the game better. It’ll just make it easier and less complicated. The campaign is already pretty easy, but that’s when you’re not fighting “a god”.
The easy way to kill lagon now that they fixed him with tentacles is to simply watch for red eye. Move to the other tentacle every time he does a red eye attack and be able to survive claw stun. Intermission is an actual joke since you can stand on stairs and kill mobs till you teleport to the top without worrying about waves. You should have some amount of health leech aswell or other over time recovery outside of pots to deal with wave damage.
The problem I have with Lagon is that the animations are too long and I can’t tell when they are snapshotting. I’d see red, smite/descend to the other tentacle, and get blasted. When I see the red eye if I gtfo I shouldn’t be blasted in my new location. Timing of claws and where they will land is also vague and if I took a stun in P3 overlapping waves could take me out.
The lack of a ground indicator showing where one hit abilities are snapshotting makes it too hard to even learn the fight. The popups just add insult to injury. Yes, thank you, I know I died to the eye beam… again. I probably wiped 20 times before asking in general. I was told to try from the stairs.
Sure enough, the stairs weren’t out of LoS like I expected and clear of the claws and eye beam I got him down.
I have no intentions of ever running a melee build unless Lagon is touched up. IMO he needs just minor changes. An indication of which tentacle he’s actually snapshotted for the beam, and a ground indicator for where claws will hit. This would simply make the fight consistent with the rest of the boss fights.
What ends up happening with Lagon is that I just don’t stay in one spot during P1&3. It’s not about killing quickly, but about surviving. There’s no enrage timer or anything. If the fight is boring, you’re doing it right.
The huge life pool is indeed annoyng and boring to fight minutes. not had too much problems during campaign but on the Ending of The Storm Monolilh with even bigger life pool and one shoot mechanics(ok, this you can learn to avoid, but big life he has it annoyng) is even worse.
I accept Lagon being difficult af, but there is something else that makes me revile his fight.
He’s being fought after Architect Liath (a difficult fight in itself), so you need to kill Liath AND Lagon in one play session.
Lagon’s hitbox is so huge it actually encompasses the area your character has to move around, so if your char has move/attack on LMB, you keep attacking instead of dodging a deadly skill.
On LE reddit sub people get unnaturally aggressive when you point it out, telling you to simply not use move+attack. Why wouldn’t I, since this is a valid gameplay option and it’s integral in my chars’ skill rotation and cadence? My current char is a ballista/falcon pet falconeer, so I had less trouble killing him, just putting down the ballistas, allowing my falcon to attack him and focusing on dodging his attacks with Shift.
So in effect Lagon is doubly difficult: for the reason you stated (though personally I find it manageable) and because of that goddamned hitbox issues.
Sure, and you’re putting forth your value judgements, so why is yours okay but not mine?
Or letting us attack his face again.
Plenty of comments here about paladins not having any problems, but playing a rogue with shuriken blade shield is a PITA in this fight because often there isn’t enough time to get from one tentacle to the other and attack before having to run back. If you could get a hit in on his face at least you could chew him down while dodging mechanics.
To continue your sentence: “… surviving long enough to be able to defeat him.” It’s the “long enough” part that’s the problem for some builds. The 3rd phase is 60% of the fight, and you’re dodging 2 tentacles, 2 rows of waves, 2 claws, his eye, and the moonbeam, and if you’re playing a minion build, also needing to pay attention to those. The question isn’t whether you can do it, it’s how long you can do it successfully at that point in the game.
As I’ve said, the increase in difficulty for some classes is much steeper than others. Paladins, “No problem.” Rogues or Necros, “Here’s your ass. Would you like paper or plastic?”
By the time you see him in the monos at least you know what to expect, but during the campaign, for some classes at least, he’s a lot tougher than some of us think he needs to be. A number of suggestions have been made, all we really need to do now is see what the devs do.
Just for the record, I have killed Lagon on
Void Knight
Shadow Daggers BD
Fire Skellimancer
Acid Flask Falconer
Wolfy Beastmaster
Spellblade
Bow Detonating Arrow MM
Warlock
Only the spellblade had any significant amount of ward. My characters all played kind of different and most of them died on the first attempts. The important thing is they all made it through, and I’m not even good at this stuff. Point is, my saying the fight is fine is based on more and more varied experiences than people who are saying the fight is too hard can claim.
The only problem with Lagon is that we don’t have enough Lagons.
We need Lagons everywhere at anytime. Chinese New Year? Zodiac Lagons. Christmas? Santa-Lagons. International Woman’s Day? Lady Lagons.
Jokes aside, for the campaign Lagons, they should have a TP after Liath. No one is going to “farm” campaign Lagon anyway, so why not make it easier to get access to him if he kills you.
Also, for all the bosses like Lagon, I think their HP can be lowered. It takes way too long to kill them. We know the mechanics, and it actually gets a bit frustratingly boring when you have to repeat dodging the same attack patterns and mechanics so many times. But I know this change is unlikely to happen because we have builds that can kill high-corruption bosses so fast, lowering their HP would only make it even easier for these builds.
Because I guarantee you that d2/d3 didn’t have rage quitters due to that type of thing
There were plenty of rage quitters to D2/D3
D2/D3 most definitely had 1-shot mechanics
1 -shot mechanics is a good way to make people feel they aren’t accomplishing anything.
Don’t tell people how they’re supposed to feel. As a former mythic raider beating a hard boss after wiping a few times is a huge sense of accomplistment.
Perhaps its a generational difference. I enjoy working hard and earning something, in this case the chance to continue the story and reach the end game, it gives me a great sense of accomplishment and relief. Lagon transitions to P2 anywhere from 59%-1%… do you stop attacking him when it starts the transition cause that’s a problem.
Correct… but s2 had the biggest boon in players… s3 regressed… but the reality is, if d2 or d3 went the route of 1 shot, the genre might not exist. If d3, if I was building a character and was mindlessly killing everything in t6… but had to back track the level to normal level and go through the normal minions again JUST to be able to defeat the boss, I’d have quit. The different in power from what you are doing with minions and bosses is assinine.
D2 and D3 did not…if d2 or d3 went the route of 1 shot, the genre might not exist. If d3, if I was building a character and was mindlessly killing everything in t6… but had to back track the level to normal level and go through the normal minions again JUST to be able to defeat the boss, I’d have quit. So would have a great many… the idea of these games is a power grab.
So … say in a level 2 dungeon… you are able to watch tv, talk to someone on chat… and easily fly through the normal minions… but when you get to the boss, you get 1 shot… that isn’t stupid do you? That’s not generational…
Oh god I forgot about those guys. They were horrendous at first as well as the Capra Demon ambush (who I didn’t die to the first time, but he was intense).
