Armour is also half effective vs non physical hits.
Dodging as main defense, if actual rng, results in those nasty spikes you mention. In PoE the actual implementation is that dodge chance can be very high, but it diminishes until it’s almost unavoidable to get hit and then works fully again. That often prevents being hit multiple times in a row which can create those big ‘unlucky’ spikes. Not sure how it is implemented here in LE (I’ve yet to level my rogue further to get that feel).
On my paladin I took some big hits too while I invested in mostly defense (though I’ve yet to gear him further and work up to harder stuff). Had to get a good portion of leech to survive. Maybe that’s an option? Feels like melee types are just gonna get hit.
Apologies, my psychic powers are lacking today so because all you did was complain about the RNG aspect of dodge without mentioning that you were capable of moving out of the way. Assumptions go both ways. You’re assuming I’m just being an ####hole while not mentioning stuff pertinent to the discussion.
It feels bad when your character fails the dodge roll, but that’s the nature of the beast. If you could never fail it, it wouldn’t have a % chance it’d just be straight up damage mitigation (like armour & resists).
This may be slightly off-topic but its important… There are lots of discussions on the forum about telegraphed incoming damage and its a fundamental part of how the devs have “built” a lot of the mechanics in the game…
Can you elaborate on what high damage hits are NOT telegraphed so that this can be checked?
I would make the argument that standing in attacks and hoping dodge allows you to not die is a mistake. “But I tried to avoid the attack and failed to do so, allowing them to hit me because dodge failed”…“So what you’re saying is you made a mistake that allowed them to get close enough to even attempt to hit you”.
If you want to avoid that mistake, use other forms of defense rather than relying on dodge so heavily.
Every form of defense relies on RNG in some form…unless you can stack 100% crit reduction there’s always a chance something hits much harder than normal which can be enough to spike even block, glancing blow, armor, etc.
Dodge offloads this by giving you a chance to take 0%, regardless if it was potentially a crit or not. If you’re just facetanking hits and expecting dodge to save you, you’re making a mistake in how you’re playing dodge.
Might be language barrier too. English is not my mother tounge. Maybee i failed to specify the problem the right way.
Y but there is something called game balance wich schould also take place. If the game design is make certain Classes fail much more often just by RNG.
Some big blows of bosses are just not ment to be “eaten” no mater how tanky or dodgy u are.
im fine witht hat. Its indicated, just move out. Rogues have plenty of movement for that.
But a 10 minute Bossfight where prety much every attack could lead to instant death if u fail the dodge while other classes are able to shrug most attacks off with some leech after the blow thats not balanced quite wel.
Not off topic at all.
I mostly talking about some few trashmobs or rare enemys hitting verry hard with just single probably slow attacks maybee with cooldown.
Mostly only indicated via animation.
(like that Wengari leap attack (earthquake?) at the altar he comes with a caster wich does nasty AOE frost but thats not the problem)
Maybee its just me but i got problems tracking every animation on the screen when there are literary 50-100 Mobs on it.
Probably wont bother at verry endgame with top gear but makes midgame verry frustrating with killing blows coming out of nowhere from trashmobs while u are otherwhise capable of pulling and tanking whole maps of fast hitting mobs without any issues.
Cant name em bul ill try to keep track and report them in the mentioned topics.
It just doesnt feel verry balanced in comparison.
Are you sure you’re playing LE? Maybe I just haven’t gone far enough in the game (only into low monoliths) but I don’t think I’ve ever seen more than 30 enemies at the absolute max on screen at once…and usually when it’s that many at least half of them die in a single skill usage or two.
That’s one way of looking at it. Another is that that more-RNG-based class requires a higher skill to play effectively.
That’s where I disagree with you then. Ignoring the hyperbole of a 10 min boss fight, if classes were “balanced” in such a way that they effectively all had exactly the same type of defences you’d end up with classes that played the same way with-respect to defences. I kinda like how we have defences set up at the moment -
RNG-based dodge (even though I hate RNG)
health with hp regen & leech
the health-substitute that is ward that some builds can generate lots of on demand (Spellblade)
% mitigation (resists & armour)
RNG-based % mitigation (block)
% mitigation below a threshold (endurance)
All of those allow different builds & classes to specialise in several different types of defence that can feel different.
Maybe you should play a bit slower then to prevent the number of mobs on screen at once from building up to unmanageable levels? Everybody has their own limits but if the number of mobs on screen at once is preventing you from being able to detect the don’t-stand-in-this hits then maybe you should just play a bit slower until you get better & can spot them.
LE generally isn’t a game designed to just zoom through the zones, unlike PoE or D3 as an example.
I would not rely on Dodge. Even with the highest value.
Dodge is, for me, the last defense layer. The ultimate thing that MAY work when all other tricks failed. It’s a plus, a very generous plus, but due to RNG it’s not something reliable.
Dodge is here in case you sneeze or cough at the worst moment.
Dodge shouldn’t be relied on if you can’t take 1 big hit.
The big leap attack by the Wengari guy does have a telegraph on the ground. It is a big electric circle. It’s a fast one, so it would be best to prepare to move out of the way when you see it.
I would say you probably need more max HP and maybe some investment into Endurance.
You could be crazy tanky if you convert your dodge into Glancing Blow and then stack Endurance and HP Regen.
Actualy the more enemys on my but the less likely those blows are going to kill me but thats something about my build though and has nothing to do with my point.
Good defense if u running a defense heavy build is probably a combination of those and not just one. So its Block plus Armor and there are probably just a few builds out ther who doesnt use leech at all.
However i understand and support the idea of having versatility in the way defense is set up in the game.
Rogue class is just kind of “pushed” in the “dodge” direction in therms of synergy wich makes u way more likely to get onehitted in comparison to other clases.
Especialy in midgame wich can be quite frustrating and could be mostly eliminated by game design.
I dont know if its even possible to get high Armor or Block with rogue since it isnt (wel) supported in the skill trees etc.
Prety much every most copied “build” is designed to do that. Also many skills support it.
The Arena gameplay has phases where hasted big packs of mobs chasing u also pushing in that direction.
Which is why I suggested that a dodge Rogue requires a higher skill to play than a build that focuses on % damage mitigation from mechanics that are “always on”, such as resists, endurance & glancing blow. Though you certainly could do a Rogue that uses resists, endurance & glancing blow to get 93.5% damage mitigation (kinda, I’m including 75% resist as 75% damage reduction) on all damage (including DoTs) below the endurance threshold & 83.75% on all damage above that. Then if you get 100% glancing blow (which is relatively simple for a Bladedancer dual wielding swords) you can even get life on glancing blow in the passive tree, and you’ll still have some dodge!
Boardman’s even done a build that’s stupidly tanky as a Rogue by stacking glancing blow, resists, 55% damage reduction while moving, capped resists and still has a high dodge chance.
You’re never going to have as much as a Sentinel, but you can get a reasonable amount of armour with Shurikens/Blade Shield providing up to 140% increased armour while you keep Blade Shield running (assuming you use the gloves that give +2 projectiles to Shurikens).
I sassume thats skillpoints in the right tree but also the right gear to make it work that way.
As i said: With top gear that “problem” is probably non existent. Whilst midgame 10% of Trashmobs may potentially kill u in one blow because they are hitting quite hard.
And i dont mean the red circles on the ground wich charge up to blow of after 1,5 secs.
Shift’s shurikens get added to the shurikens you get from the base skill, so that should be 3 +2 from Thin Shurikens +2 Fan of Blades +2 Li’raka’s Gloves +5 shift = 14 x 30% = 420% increased armour. I forgot to include the additional points in the Bladed Armour node.
Heres hoping you take the following post in the constructive spirit its intended…
Please do… although I think those posts are getting a little old now… It may just help for you to read the devs comments when you find them.
There definitely are certain “trashmobs” as you call them, that hit hard, but they have been specifically designed to telegraph the hits.
Some examples:
The Soul Cages (turtle like mobs), hit incredibly hard but they have a slow mechanic windup that makes it very easy to move out of the way…
The Lightning Elementals (diamond prism shaped)… also hit really hard - especially if you tag them and then run off-screen… they have a complicated animation showing the build up… Again, easy to deal with.
The Ice golems, lumbering gorrila kind of mob, that slams the ground making ice rains… again very hard hitting, but easy to get out of the way because they telegraph the attack. In fact, all the golems hit really hard but have an easily visible attack sequence.
Even the Wengari Matriarch… Her slam hits hard, but again, its easy to see the circle on the ground coming and move…
The other side of this issue, imho, is that there are also mobs (including those above) that hit really hard IF you dont have the correct or enough damage mitigation in place and there are other types of Damage like DoT which you HAVE to move out of the way of… For example the Birds of various kinds with the weak to melee affixes and the Ice Elementals shoot the ice shards at you… Or the ones that spit blood pools at you… They hit like trucks if you dont have enough mitigation while trying to get close to them for a melee attack - they are one of the mobs that will test early to mid level characters… and they usually surprise you because until then you are usually sailing through without a care in the world and not really concentrating on defence.
Then there is the general concept of the character classes and the skills & passive trees that the devs have built for them… i.e. a Sentinel class would logically be a block & armoured character, a Mage class would primarily be a magical shield (ward)… Rogue character would be glancing blow/dodge type character… Its always going to be easier for a Sentinel class character to get the block chance into the 80%+ or high armour just as its easier for a Rogue to get Glancing Blow to 100% and a Mage to get 3000+ Ward… Obviously, there is a LOT of overlap to make things interesting & allow for creativity in builds which everyone does - Layering the defences is just as important - relying on a single defence for any character is undoubtly going to result in a character that gets one-shot far too often to be enjoyable to play. People often forget about HP, Endurance, Health Regen or Leech on a build… The trick about this is to understand and learn what works… For this I recommend looking at Tunks website where you can see what each damage mitigation does & how it scales… There is even an effective health calculator which shows how big of a one-shot you could survive…
Combine the three: Learning to deal with telegraphed incoming damage, chosing the best combination of defences for the class style and having enough of it to withstand enough damage is the key… This may be obvious, but it can explain your frustration… If you dont address these, then you are likely going to get to the stage (probably around level 45 to 55ish) where you are going to get frustrated and say the game is crap or unbalanced or feel that the character you have raced through the campaign with is all of a sudden a wimp and dies all the time. All it probably needs is a little tweaking and it will probably be good as new for another few levels…
