The cancer of this game

General
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I’ve been playing LE for almost five years now. I studied it inside out, played on many builds, enjoyed watching the development of the project: adding new mechanics, fixing bugs, and solving other problems. But one problem in the main mechanics of the game remains unchanged to this day. The name of this problem is Forging Potential.

The essence of games like LE is to create builds. In order to create a build, you need to grind for the items you need. To use these items in your build, you need to craft them properly. To craft them properly, you need to understand how the crafting mech work. And here the question arises, after 5 years of playing, do i know how this mech work?

I think those people who seriously minmaxing builds, rather than playing on a new build every week, understand what it’s like when you’ve been grinding the exalt you need for a few days, with the right stats on it, and then they decide to use main mech of the game and make cool stuff… BANG BOOM! -15, -10, -18 And that’s it. All over again. Until random’s will allows you to do what you want.

I realize that this game is not chess. There is a place of chance here. But when nothing depends on your efforts and knowledge, it starts to annoy. During all this time, the devs have added a bunch of features for targeted lootsearch and other things (for example, the guaranteed affix in Julra’s dungeon). But what’s the point if you stumble over randomness of creating an item?

At the moment, the game has an avg of 1500 online, and i’m one of those fans who comes in to play every day no matter what. I’m ready to put up with lagging chat, with the reset of mtx from the character, with poor optimization, with the current negativity around the game related to the paid class, and i continue to monitor the development of the project with hope for the best.

But when i touch the most basic mech of crafting, for some reason i feel like vomiting.

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As someone who is the kind of person that does not min max builds I understand it even though I never hit this issue as once again I do not min max…but I do compare this with D4/PoE and imagine not being able to use more than 4x alteration orbs on an item before it gets bricked or how D4 had its tempers when it first came out with a limited number and if it did not hit exactly what you needed then the item was bricked in most cases.

Honestly? I never thought of LEs crafting that way but yeah I see it now and how awful it is in that way. I did recommend once that a rune/glyph/something that gives back forging potential to an item is brought to the game and people hated that idea but I never said it should not be rare the thing that does it or gatekept behind a boss or a certain corruption or multiple of things at once.

I love the crafting in LE because it is mostly braindead (not a bad thing imo as I do not want a PHD in crafting like you need for PoE) and easy to learn with forging potential being the main RNG as you can select what affix you want to craft on the item.

I think though this was their way of “having to spend 2k alteration orbs to get the affix you need” but here you need to be lucky to drop the same item base with the same exalted affixes before you can try again and it is not like you just farm a thousand of those per day so you can give them as many tries as you want in crafting.

Imprinting the item exists though but I did not toy around with it enough to see how effective it is for such farming but that is their redemption on this situation I think. Either way I see your point and I do think imrpinting should be the middle ground for this situation but again I have no clue how big the difference is in drops when the item you want is imprinted and not.

Overall I am fine with its crafting since I do not care about the min max but I do hope there can be ways to make it easier for people who do try and do that.

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Correct

That’s exactly what we need, or a change in lowering the FP range

I like your thoughts

Exactly

Not effective at all

I hope so too

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I have mentioned this issue with FP a lot, like I’m known for my whinging, bitching, complaining and moaning - I think the roll range on crafting runes is too extreme. I understand there should be elements of luck involved but 100% agree. My friend literally plays one build the whole league. He’s still going on his main now even though he can kill uber in 30 seconds or less - non bugged. Point if I farm troves with him for imprints takes like you said days and days and this is going 8+ straight hours and more, if you get super lucky in a nem tower and get a 60+ FP then it drops pretty good re-rolls at 50+ and you’re like YESSS BABY then you get unlucky bro’d and 3 runes hit 18-20FP a pop and you’ve got a brick. It’s yuck. Like it actually makes you die a little inside.

If you play casually this is no where near the same issue, on new chars I don’t mind as much but when you finally have that unique with a super rare LP3 on it and you’re doing your best to get that trip T7 exalted to drop with just 2 of what you need, man it feels good when you see it until you see it with 40ish FP and realise you have to seal something, add something, and then havoc and hope to god you hit it - nah man it’s out the window. LOL!! Not to mention that you’ve done all that RNG for the item, RNG with crafting then you go to slam it and that’s ALSO RNG - it’s a bit too much. This is my personal opinion as I know whilst reading this someone has already started defending the whole system lmao.

I suggested a rune that adds FP as a super rare drop, I’ve suggested higher corruption should 100% drop higher FP items - higher corruption has ZEROOOO value and that’s why I’ve stopped at 37xxx K this season, there’s no point. For people with no lives like myself there should be a reward for pushing higher, FP should be one. I can get a triple exalted from 200c nem tower with max FP - I like this but I also don’t see why you can’t get even higher FP at higher corruption, it’s weird.

This games unique in the fact that if you’re playing COF there is no affect on any other players or the market so no one can push high and make a difference to the economy.

MG - sorry don’t care lol

But yeah again, my 2 cents there should be a benefit to hardcore players because casual players are already getting so many benefits in this game vs any other ARPG if you’re casual. If you play casual in POE you can’t get the same equipment as you can in LE.

Anyways - FP actually does feel like cancer

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Agreed. My latest build’s chest crafting pissed me off. Rune if evolution bricked most of pieces. -21 -18 -22 = -45k bones n -3 expensive chests in 3 clicks
And another ev rune made t8 out of wrong affix on double t7 chest :rage: (4 of 7 bricks yap, thx ev rune)
Also base-changing glyph is useless when affixes are maxed - thx RNG, 210 sentinel chest is much better than 420 … 5 fp left and no way to reroll crappy item base

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the IDEA behind LE’s crafting is one of the best i’ve seen and i really used to love it. it is “PERFECT” if the goal is to make T20 gear.

however at the end game we want T23-T24 or even T24 with sealed affixes. pushing it to T27++

the amount of power players gain from such items is damn high. but that is where the crafting system feels bad. it was good all the way when all you wanted was t20. after that, crafting feels bad. you spend so much time farming just to likely fail a craft or get what you want but run out of crafting options that the item is incomplete.

feels bad too often. in the end we feel like we’re wasting time playing this game.

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Yeah I think too much of the time I end up with this (pic below example I’ve had much worse) after a solid 8-10 or more of running troves for imprints / amber - then sit down and whittle out a nice lil craft system. I usually try keep 100-200 havocs which I get from Lightless or Uber runs for a big sesh of brickcitys since you churn thru them so badly.

All the reds are T777 the pics I had with T77 there was twice as many lol this was when I was trying to slam some Lp3 Traitors for my flask and chak builds D:!!!

https://imgur.com/a/hbAkRMo

I think the worst feeling is a havoc that doesn’t move - people said if you get the open slots to higher tier or equal tier, tried that also with lack of FP to raise tiers is more of that gone, it’s just a horrible feeling. Same as a 7771 slam on a LP3 getting you 771 hahah! But that’s actually, sadly acceptable - game of chance. Forging should be more control than luck of rolling low on a rune.

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What do you mean with “doesn’t move”? Havoc is guaranteed to change the item. It might not change to what you want, but it will always change it.

The whole equal tiers is simply to improve your odds. Since Havoc only guarantees that the result will change, if you have T7654, you can have just any two affixes change, turning into a T7645, for example. That means the chances of getting the T7 to move to the affix you want is much higher (I think 1 in 24, don’t feel like doing the real math).

If you have a T7111, then you’re guaranteed that the T7 will move to one of the other 3 affixes, giving you a 1/3 chance per roll.

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Yeah, but things like 2 T7 and 2 T5 can stay identical. The 2 T5 can switch from… T5 to T5… and the 2 T7 can switch… from T7 to T7 :stuck_out_tongue:

As much as I know that’s not excluded to happen.

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It can’t. The rune specifically says: “Cannot result in all the affixes having the same tiers as before, and cannot be used on items where all the non-sealed affixes have the same tier.”

That is why a T7111 has a 1/3 chance to succeed, otherwise it would be a lot less.

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Bro I’ve seen it 1000 times so has everyone else I swear on my life you hit it and they stay fair dinkum the same T7’s lol - it says “cant have the same tiers as before” but if it can’t upgrade a 5 to a 6 and you have 3 tier 7’s whats it going to do?

But yeah it’s happened tons and tons of time’s people bitch in global and link items raging, it’s happened to me more times than I could count and my friends in game. Not sure what to tell you, maybe its a bug with multiple 7s or something, not sure but I wouldn’t have said that’s the worst feeling if it didnt happen I promise haha

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The rune doesn’t guarantee that the exalted will move. If you have a T2 and T3 suffixes, for example, it can simply switch those. Which is why you want all affixes in the same tier.

If you have 3T7 and something else, it has to make the other affix a T7 and one of the 3T7s becomes that tier instead.
If it’s not doing that, then file a bug with the in-game tool.

But from all the times I’ve used it, it always worked. When you use one, the item never stays the same.

From what I understand, you have x possible combinations in your item. The rune will simply pick a different combination (not permutation, since that would allow repeats). So a triple T7 would have 4 possible combinations of:
777x
77x7
7x77
x777
And the rune would simply pick one at random that isn’t the current one.

Like I said, pay close attention that it’s not switching some other affix you’re not paying attention to. If you’re sure it didn’t change, then file a bug report. It sends game data, so they can figure out what went wrong.

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Ok allow me to re-word, lol:

The worst feeling in the game is when you have 3 x tier 7’s on a item and a low tier item that you want to be T7, you hit the button and the low tier is still a low tier and you’ve wasted 15-20FP - so yeah

worst feeling using a havoc that doesn’t swap AND uses a ton of FP

The wording on the rune in the first para makes it seem like its always going to swap - it doesn’t say guarenteed swap you are right but it also doesn’t say “might stay where it is” :stuck_out_tongue:

And honestly bro I’ve given up on in game bug reporting been doing it the better part of a year and nothing I’ve reported has ever been fixed (listed them on the big long 99 bug thread now) but as well as in game reporting I’ve listed on forums a bunch too. Some bugs been around since before I started and are still there now shrug

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That would be a bug. If you have a T777x (we’re ignoring sealed affixes since those are ignored by the rune), you’re guaranteed that x will be a T7. Only which of the T7s becomes x is up for grabs.
So if you use a havoc on a 3T7 and the Tx doesn’t become a T7, then that’s a bug and it should be reported.

If you have a T77xy, then that’s a different issue altogether where xy can switch instead.

Basically, if you use a havoc your item will always be different from before using it. At least 2 of the affixes will change tiers. They don’t have to be the exalted affixes switching, but 2 will always switch. Otherwise it’s a bug.

I’d imagine they have a bugfix list going into the thousands. From minor inconveniences that affect a few people to major ones that affect a lot of people, passing through obscure issues that only happen when the moon is in the right phase and the day is sunny.

Fixing them all would take a really long time, especially when you’re also developing new content (and adding new bugs to the list), so they have to be prioritized.
They do fix a lot of bugs each season. Not at GGG speed, but GGG has had over 10 years to fine tune their work methods to respond that way. And even then, PoE1 has had bugs persist for years before being addressed, if they even are.

That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t report bugs. We just shouldn’t expect them to fix our particular bug(s) right away. There are literally thousands in the queue.

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I’m devoid of fear, even Big Abby is not scary me, but FP…
FP is my main nightmare :joy: :joy:

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Reasonings are fine and all…
…but that doesn’t change that it’s demoralizing. Why put the effort in as a player to then have it entirely wasted?

The best received devs have always been those which fix their shit but also manage to at least provide a bit of stuff along the way. But without fixing their shit it’s commonly not going well, at least not long-term.
Great games have gotten into trouble for simply… not fixing their shit because they thought ‘but we need to focus on new content’ which has the same issues and is only a quarter of the fun it could be because all the annoying stuff rips you out of your enjoyment.

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Sure, I can see that. Lots of things in the world are demoralizing. Doesn’t change facts, though.

And yet PoE2 is a huge success, despite many bugs, many of which are there since launch. You can give it some discount for being “early access”, but even so PoE2 has probably more bugs than LE does.

PoE1 has bugs going on for years without being fixed, like mobs getting stuck in scenery or legion bosses not leaving and not dropping loot or abysses not closing due to lack of space, and yet it’s still popular and hasn’t suffered for it.

The truth is that if a player enjoys a game they’re much more lenient towards bugs the game might have, as long as they’re not game breaking. And, conversely, if they aren’t enjoying it then they’re much more critical to even small annoying bugs that aren’t too impactful on gameplay.

We can even see this in the PoE1 examples I provided, with some players being exasperated by their continued state over the years, while others just shrug them away.

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Actually, you’re both right. But here’s the thing, the discussion initially began not on the bug, but on the mechanic. Core mechanic.

As @ExSea correctly wrote above, this mechanic was created for T5 affixes. But there are already fucking T8 in the game. And with such items, this mechanic works terribly. So here we are not talking about bugs that have not been fixed for years, but about the mechanic (which really feel worse than a bug), which had to be redone for new content. And this work had to be done in parallel with the development of new content.

We also have enough bugs in the game, very annoying and not so, but when i click the “play” button and ask myself “Is it worth my time?” first of all, I’m not thinking about any bugs, but about FP suffering.

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I’ll just say that it has to do with the scale and repeatable aspect of the bugs.
Obscure ones which are basically ‘flukes’ or ‘engine issues’ generally tend to be overlooked. But regularly running into textures defaulting to a empty one or functional differences from what is showed to the player go over badly.

That’s why PoE 1 and 2 are better received in that regard… GGG fixes the stuff which is broken and fixable, and even the core functions they do rework over time regularly. ‘Something’ is always happening in those regards.
Comparably the scale EHG does is ‘below minimum threshold’, MG being a prime example there for ‘fixing stuff’ mechanically.

The same - to lead back to the actual topic - is the case with FP. The issue is reducible… and it’s so dire and excessively presented to the player that despite it being a core system issue people say in quite surprising amounts ‘this doesn’t work for me’.

Yeah, I’m stating that since… well… forever. ‘Exalted items’ were a mistake and aren’t able to be scaled. That’s what I said the second they came out. Back then in arguments with - back then - relatively invested LE streamers.

‘Drop only’ is nice for special rewards. But it’s not fine for a system which makes up the majority of playtime and mandates usage of core crafting and progression mechanics. It just throws off the acquisition rate completely.

Exactly!
‘Will I get the feeling of success I’m searching for?’ is always the factor driving a person forward. If they know their respective type or not.

And LE is below the threshold what many people will get though other games in a more reliable and long-term functioning way… or even in reality. And when reality provides ‘more’ then a game which is supposed to reduce the hurdles reality throws at you comparably then there’s something off :stuck_out_tongue:

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Agree. And 35-40 fp are kinda OK for it. But double exalt into evolution t8+t7 or into reforged t7+t7 through havoks… even nemesis drops with 55-60 fp burns down like paper dolls :fire_extinguisher:

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