I have +10 skill in my gear. For one skill, it’s good. For others, it’s either pointless and doesn’t affect damage, or it only reduces damage and ruins the build if I spend points on any node.
My suggestion is to add a generic node next to the main node with stats based on what the skill does, such as:
This way, we can spend points without changing the skill’s behavior.
I guess it would defeat the entire purpose of the skill tree specializations, one of the best things LE has to offer.
The goal of it is exactly the opposite of what you’re suggesting: to change the skill’s behavior according to the player’s needs. Not just generically buff the skills damage.
I don’t think this would be healthy to the game as a whole, as those nodes would then become mandatory on every build, since they’re generically good for their skills, hurting build variety in general.
But, would you mind elaborating further?
Is your example hypothetical?
Or are you actually finding yourself in this position? And if so, what are the skills that would be ruined if they had more points on them?
Cause if this is true, then we have a problem that should not be solved by adding generic nodes, but by revamping the existing nodes, making it so any given skill would never be ruined if they have 10+ extra points on them.
It is very rare to get that much +skills. Most builds do perfectly fine with +2 to +6. Many even do just fine with +0.
And you can actually choose how much +skills you get. If the skill won’t get a benefit from having more +skills, don’t use that affix and instead use an affix that is better for your build.
There’s a reason why most builds don’t stack +skills so much (or even barely at all) and that’s because you get more from other affixes.
So if you want to stack +10 skills on a skill that won’t benefit it, that’s kinda your choice.
My example is not hypothetical. I just got lucky with rolls. I have +4 to Skeleton in my chest, +2 in my off-hand, +1 in my relic, +2 on gloves, and +1 on a ring (could be +4 with 2 rings and perfect rolls). The game itself gives a lot of points from gear, so it wouldn’t defeat the purpose of the skill tree, since the devs gave it to us.
The idea is a “trash bin” node. I’m not saying: “Hey, add a +100% damage node with infinite stacks.” Something like +5% would be enough.
The problem is, most of my +X skills are generic and give points to all my skills. As I said, for one skill it’s good, for the others, not. Right now, I removed some, but still, I’m capping one skill because I have nowhere to add points in the others.
What nodes in particular are making your skills worse/ruined? Can you share your character profile? I find it hard to believe that having 25+ points vs 20 in any skill will leave you in a “if I spend more points my skill is ruined” position
Ahhh! I saw “Beta” and didn’t consider it being a Legacy character
I don’t know how to share my character. Besides, I already changed my setup to have fewer points. But for example, with Wraith, I have the node to make them permanent. At some point, I have to choose:
I lowered my points, so I have 27 in Skeletons and 23 in the others. Inside the skill trees, some have more synergy with themselves than others. Skeletons are already permanent, so all nodes are built around that. But others aren’t. like Wraith, where 70% of the nodes are about number of casts, health decay, and summoning more Wraiths.
Actually, the node near where you are is less health decay. Yes, they’re permanent, but for 1 skill point, you can next move on to increase their crit chance.
You also have the options at the top where you can summon more than one at a time, which is handy when they’re getting wiped out. And it even connects to them applying damned.
There are always load of options. You don’t have to take them all.
So if you feel your skill won’t get much benefit from +skills, then use another affix that will benefit them more, like +minion damage or health instead.
Your suggestion would only make it kinda mandatory for every single build to stack +skills; kinda killing the diversity.
That’s the point, I can go for the Damned node, but it’s not a node that benefits me the most, and I need +2 skill points to reach it. That +2 can be good for other skills, but it’s not worth it for this one.
Like I said, they made the Wraith tree (just an example, other trees have similar issues) with around 70% of the nodes built around Wraiths not being permanent. Once you make them permanent, most of the nodes become useless.
Skeletons work almost perfectly fine with any node because the tree was designed with permanent Skeletons in mind from the beginning.
Like FOLK said:
“…Cause if this is true, then we have a problem that should not be solved by adding generic nodes, but by revamping the existing nodes, making it so any given skill would never be ruined if they have 10+ extra points on them…”
It’s just my suggestion, if reworking the trees fixes the problem, that’s fine with me.
With the same +2 points, you can increase their base crit, and that’s definitely helpful. You still have options. You’d just rather have better ones all the time other than some being better than others.
You have 3 Points in Bleed Chance for Wraith, where you could put 2 point into Putrid Wraith for +10% more Wraith Damage, or as DJ suggested take a “filler” point of -15% Health Decay (useless for you) to lead into a bunch of Crit nodes which are useful for you
Edit:
Poison Crit Wraith with an additional +4 Levels of Summon Wraith from the Chest Piece: https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/QdqNGayB
Crit Wraith w/ more move speed w/o poison: https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/B7bn3L6Q
So even with +7 and Permanent Wraiths I have two builds (could go 4.5 with Bleed, Necrotic, and adding Flame Wraiths) and only a single point is actually “wasted”
That’s not my point. This route gives me 5% crit chance, but my build is not a Minion Crit build. Could it help? Yes, it would increase my damage, just like the Bleed node, since I have a weapon that increases DoT.
But that’s not the point. Some trees have more internal synergy than others. An infinite node with +5–10% Minion Damage would be better than 3 nodes in Bleed or 5% crit.
As I said, the Skeletons tree flows well, almost all nodes work well together. Other trees don’t.
But these do work well together. More crit is never bad even without it being a crit build. And in fact, your twin spirits dealing +180% damage actually makes them better for crit scaling than normal wraiths.
Additionally:
If I only want one type of skeletons, the Skeleton tree also doesn’t “flow well” because now there’s 2/3 sections that are blocked off (Archer/Rogue/Warrior) as those nodes don’t benefit the other types.
It would, but it would also make it so that every single build would have to stack +skills to be effective. It would become a mandatory stat.
Right now, you usually have one DPS skill. Having a bunch of +skills on that skill is often useful (although, as I mentioned before, in most builds +2 to +6 are more than enough and other affixes are also more valuable).
You usually have only 1 DPS skill. The rest tend to be utility or support. The DPS skill benefits the most from +skills (and even then, most builds will only use +4 or thereabouts, because the other affixes become more beneficial).
For example, for wraithlord, having +10 skills is great. Same for flame wraith turrets build. Because that is your main DPS.
For golemancer, for example, +wraith doesn’t give you that many benefits and you’re better off using something else.
It’s better to have choices and use different affixes, rather than being forced to take +skills in every single slot because it’s meta and basically mandatory.
Well man, if you can’t see or understand my point, what I’m trying to tell you, I can’t do anything else.
I could have +8 on the Skeleton tree right now, and it would work fine.
Again, if you can’t see what I’m pointing at, I don’t know what else I can say to make you see the problem.
“…It would, but it would also make it so that every single build would have to stack +skills to be effective. It would become a mandatory stat…”
Sure, I agree, again, as I said before, it’s just a suggestion to a problem.
And Again as FOLK said:
“…Cause if this is true, then we have a problem that should not be solved by adding generic nodes, but by revamping the existing nodes, making it so any given skill would never be ruined if they have 10+ extra points on them…”
But you guys are focusing on my Wraith tree
That was because that was the example you gave. And because you said:
This isn’t the case in any tree. At most, there aren’t any nodes available that will increase your damage/utility. Cases where no matter what the node you take you won’t get anything out of it (most common for support skills in some builds).
But there is no case where having +skills will ever force you to take nodes that will reduce your damage or ruin your build. At most, you take useless stuff (although even this is quite rare), which would be a clear indication that you’d be better off with another affix.
Ok, let’s use my build as an example. Look at my Skeleton tree, I could have +3 on Sweeping Strikes for more damage, +4 in Immortal to sustain my Skeletons, and +1 on Aegis of Death for even more sustain. That would be 35 points in Skeletons.
Now let’s say I have 35 in Wraith. My build is Poison Melee right now, so I can’t take any Wraith variants since they’re ranged:
And yet, I have to spend 12 points on “ok-ish” nodes.
I agree, we have to take some “not-so-good” nodes to reach the good ones. I have no problem with that. That’s not the issue.
My point is, some trees have more synergy than others. In the case of Wraiths, if you choose the permanent node, you’re locked out of more than half the tree. (And if you choose to lock the other Skeletons, each one only has 3 nodes, and they’re in the corners, behind the node that adds them. The middle of the tree is useful for everyone.) Just that.