Spriggan Form Movement Discussion

I would love to make said decision with my Spriggan sadly I don’t even have a skillable option :smiley: .

From Staff: This comment was split off from another thread as the base for a new one as it completely shifted the topic.

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For spriggan there is a Unique item option to give you a movement skill.

That is not “skill able”, but there is the option at least

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Suuuuure equipping a trash unique is “an option” It’s like choosing what poop sandwich you want to eat… at least there is an option. Equipping a unique item to get a “option” that is baseline for everone elses skills isn’t an option it’s a waek trash substitute.

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Yeah, it’d be ok if you could use Primalist skills on the Spriggan skill bar 'cause then you could use Fury Leap. The unique Heavy mentions also increases the cooldown on Vines by 7s, unlike all other movement skills that generally have a ~4s cooldown…

EHG could add a travel skill to spriggan if they want to. From my point of view thorn shield could easiely get a branch for a travel skill. Playing Spriggan solo is np but in group you are pretty much useless if you play with people who play fast builds.

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I’m trying to think of an (effective) and thematic travel skill, for what is basically… a tree.

Obviously it would be called “Leave”.

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Root Travel - You let yourself whiter and with the energy of this prozess you reemerge in the distance.

Explosive growth so to speak where you whiter your in one place to sprout in another.

it’s a world full of MAGIC you don’t need to think about because it’s… maaagic!

A transform into ivy which travels and manifest vines on the target location where sou transform back came to mind.

Sure something like this but there are endless opportunities because it’s a fantasy game with magic. There is no reason why a tree should’nt sprint form A to B all of the sudden. Having a glaring flaw in the basic class design compared to other classes is a big nono on the other hand.

Is it really a design flaw?

The devs have stated they design the boss fights without a move skill involved. so aslong as you balance modifiers properly, and play well, not having a movement skill does not hurt you.

yes you get from point A to point B or rush objectives slower, thats just a meta game issue not one of actual balance or game design issue.

Divergent design is interesting. if every character had the same flaws it would be boring, spriggan is interesting because its weakness is different then other builds/archetypes.

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Spriggan already gains a huge movement bonus from passives, to compensate. Not sure a lack of dedicated movement skill is a ‘design flaw’.

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I don’t talk about a movement skill for boss fights, I talk about a movement skill for movement and only for the sake of movement. Take 4 people of the same skill level with decent builds that do a monolith and one of them is a spriggan. If the other 3 players want to the Spriggan player is maybe able to hit on HP sponge boss type of enemy once in awhile or isn’t seeing an enemy at all. Been there done that bear druid charged in one direction mage teleported whereever and the sentinel charged away and I started to walk int to direction the mage took because it was the direction to the objective. I haven’t seen an enemy and all of the sudden the monolith was done. This isn’t happening 24/7 and we simply tried to do it.

From my point of view giving every mastery and every other transformation a movement skill but one then it’s a design flaw because you intentionaly slow one mastery down.

Oh now the you say it other classes don’t get movement speed as well right… You know they can get movementspeed on top of having a movement skill.

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This is a fair criticism but I dont think the game is actually balanced around MP like that. any broken combos get nipped in the butt and otherwise, thats just a metagame problem.

its like me saying my cd based 1 shot nuker never gets to fight normal enemies because the screen wide aoe guy is killing everything.

Your character just so happens to be bad in a zippy mp party. I have a warpath build that has like 200% movement speed while warpathing, if I play that with my friends and leave them in the dust, im just an asshole lol

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Sure, it can. That doesn’t mean it needs it. It’s fine as it is. Thematically, and play-wise.

Then there should be no void chars ingame because theme…undeads should’nt be poisened and bleed… chars should’nt get movementspeeds where they look inhuman… where do you draw the line? It’s about a movement skill for a transformation without blocking a itemslot with bad gear and an unpractical movement skill that makes play-wise 0 sense…

i don’t understand how someone can be against a movement skill for a Spriggan because of themes while not shiting on the game for a lot of obvious reasons that go against common sense even in a world full of magic ^^. Doublestandards at it’s finest :smiley: .

Let me guess, you are playing a Spriggan, and getting a little sandy-in-the-britches because it doesn’t move fast enough to be a top tier monolith clearer?

I like to play Spriggan yes and i dislike the Spriggan beeing the slowpoke from all classes. The obvious out of the way i stioll wait for your thematicly accurate approach why stuff is like it is in a fantasy game with magic and why trees shouldn’t be even to get from A to B fast.

To me it’s simply unfair and the devs dodge that matter forever and only offered a trash tier ring to compansate with a terrible mechanic to use it. So the devs already aren’t against the spriggan moving from A to B fast they only seem to have something against an even playingfield with a good movement skill like every class has. It’ just an unfair design and that’s all. I still play Spriggan because I like the class and I’m not into speedfarming but there is a difference between beeing the slowest and beeing unable to keep up no matter what.

If this is sandy-in-the.britches where you came from so be it. Where I’m from something like this is called valid concern over an unfair ingame mechanic that leads to one transformation that will never be valid to reach any speed leaderboard postions. Just to name one example for you that makes the matter more obvious with another example.

Not enough people caring for it makes it not less of an issue for many reasons.

I will start this reply saying that I don’t really have an opinion one way or another on what should happen to spriggan.

That being said, there will never be a balance point where every build can fairly compete for leaderboards. I don’t think any ARPG ever managed that. What most have done is simply have separate leaderboards for separate classes, that’s all.

Looking at D2, that imbalance is very marked where only the sorc has teleport. Every other class needs enigma to teleport and many builds can’t afford to switch their body gear for it. It’s a similar situation to Spriggan, where they have to sacrifice a gear slot for a movement skill.

Looking at PoE, that imbalance is even more marked. You have zoomer builds that run around the maps in seconds and builds that are much much slower. And this is despite the fact that pretty much all builds use some sort of movement skill.

I don’t think it’s possible to balance builds so that they can all compete in a race leaderboard. Although movement speed doesn’t really matter for that. Almost all builds that reach lvl 100 in PoE are the tanks, not the zoomers. Spriggan sacrifices a movement skill for having a 2nd life and a healing skill.

That being said, I don’t think them having a movement speed skill or not will change much for the leaderboards, just for party play. Although there will always be zoomer builds and slower builds. I don’t think you can escape that.

Ultimately, I think the main issue is that LE doesn’t have enough game for build specializations. In PoE you have builds that are either good mappers or good bossers. The mappers are the zoomers that move and kill fast, the bossers are the heavy hitters that move slowly. If you pair a mapper and a bosser doing a map, the bosser will always be left behind. You don’t usually compare the two.

In LE though, all builds right now are expected to do all content. That leads to frustration when some builds do the exact same thing as others but do it slower.

That is just my opinion. It doesn’t invalidate any other opinion, nor does it justify whether or not Spriggan should have an innate movement skill.

It should also be noted that there are classes that are currently quite underpowered and will be reworked/rebalanced in the future. There’s no reason Spriggan can’t be one as well.

In LE you need a seperate leaderboard for people who use the Spriggan skill then? I don’t talk about perfect balance i talk about one mastery that uses a transformation skill is unable to use a movement skill. A downside NO other class has. That’s not a “Oh boy Paladin is able to do 3% more dmg then VK!” it’s a "My toon is excluded from the club of skill users that use a movement skills while transformed.

There is a reason why D2 is over 2 decades old and aged badly if you look at it objectively. Then again let’s put the perspective right. imagine D2 while every class can run except the Druid who can’t because the endurence mechanic was removed from the class or is unable to be used while shapeshifted.

You are not resticted by your class when it comes to PoE. In PoE you make a choice. Sure i have a choice in LE as well between having no movement skill and having a trash tier item sith a bad mechanic that blocks a inventory slot. At the end of the day I can choose what poop sandwich i like more what is poor design in my eyes. In PoE I could at least put a movement skill into my build without a sweat. On top of it you can always pick a movement skill because you have a ton of buttons to assign skills to.

Okay… wtf? Play a bit without a movement skill and without MS. Then play the same build with MS and a movement skill and tell me what moved faster ^^. As long as you have the killspeed MS is godlike because you murder stuff faster and get more loot what increases the chances of a worthwhile piece by a lot.
i don’t know what games you play but this goes against everything H&S games are about ^^.

I’m not delusional and I don’t think denial is a river in Egypt. I don’t talk about everything beeing balanced to the .000% mark and everything needs to perform the same way. I talk about something EVERY other class, Mastery and transformation skill has access to. A BASELINE mechanic so to speak. I don’t ask for a jetpack for a spriggan that turn it into a nuclear fireball that kills everything while rocketing through. I ask for a mesly movement skill like everyone else has in every possible build and tranformation state.

Come again? LE is all about build/skill specialsation. You can only use 5 skills and you have a limited action set. The whole thing screams specialisation.

I don’t say “Spriggan bad because no bossing/mapping build!”. I don’t even go there. All I say is there is a possibility missing everyone else has.

Yes and no. it’s bad in MP but solo I can be as chill as I want to and don’t care outside of beeing the only transformation state without a movement skill. Not to start another masteries specialisation that offers the possibility to have 2 movement skills ^^.

Still good points outside of some strange things here and there .p

Well I don’t see spriggan as a underpowered skill/transform or in need for a rework. All it needs is a movement skill. That’s all I’m saying :smiley: .