One thing that confuses me with the ring is why it give a seven second cooldown rather than the more common 4.
Not really, but if you compare with other games, there are faster builds within the same class and they don’t compete on the same level for leaderboards. Druid has other builds available that can be competitive, while Spriggan isn’t. Maybe a simple movement skill could fix that or maybe they should get some other upside. Again, I have no formed opinion either way.
Well, I both agree and disagree with that. It’s true that the most important thing is the build, but many builds have variants for different classes where some are tankier, some are speedier or deal more damage. Same with GD. It’s not just the build itself that defines your clear speed.
As I mentioned, every single build in PoE uses a movement skill. And still, there are builds/classes that are much slower than others.
I meant that movement speed doesn’t really matter for reaching the top of the leaderboard. More often than not, it’s the slower builds that reach level 100 first because they tend to be tankier.
Then again, LE doesn’t have an XP penalty like PoE does, so it doesn’t have to automatically apply either.
That was a typo. I meant that LE doesn’t have enough ENDgame for build specializations. Every build in LE is basically able to do empowered monos, dungeons or arena. They mostly just vary in the corruption they can push, the number of waves reached or the time spent on bosses.
There really isn’t a choice where you have to decide between focusing your build on monos (mapper) or dungeons (bosser).
Sure, maybe it doesn’t need a rework, but you at least feel it needs rebalancing, if only to add a movement skill.
Again, I’m not against it having a movement skill or not. I personally feel that always having a movement skill is better. Just compare D2 or D2R with mods like PD2 where they created a movement skill for every class. It feels a lot better to play anything that isn’t a sorc or has enigma.
Personally, after going back to GD after a few days, I even miss the evade button in LE, which is, most of the time, simply another movement skill with a separate cooldown.
Well it goes back to the homogenization argument. Not that I’m always against classes/masteries having the same/similar skills, but I don’t think it’s always necessary just because “meh, I want it!!!”. Would it be neat if Spriggan had a huge screen-clearing AOE? Sure. Would it be neat if they had some kind of ‘oh-shit’ invulnerability mechanic? Perhaps. Hell, we could even call them ‘tree-y’ things, just so they fit… because everything fits if the name is right. Let’s go with Leafy Apocalypse and Bark-Bark Armor of the Dogs! err Gods!!!. There, 2 more “must have” abilities for the Spriggan, and they are even named in a way to make it completely acceptable… because I want them!
I’m on my 4th or 5th Spriggan build, and I’ve never once thought, 'this class just needs a movement skill. Why? Because in the back of my mind, I remembered I was playing a freaking tree. Granted, the Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers could have been much shorter if the Ents had some sort of teleportation. So I’ll give you that.
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This. I initially was bothered by no movement skill when toying around with Spriggan form but after awhile I realized they have so many movement speed options it’d actually be sort of overkill.
The question is how leaderboards are designed… For example waht if 2 people reach Arena level 999 how do you know who performed better? Either you have 2 people on the first place or you have other factors like… time? Almost every other game has some racing or time aspect to it’s leaderboards. SO MS and a movement skill might be a very important thing to have. At the end you save time because you are faster ^^.
Okay this is completely valid. Right now the content we have is not difficult enough (Outside of numerical values) to need specialised builds.
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Where is the finish line in the arena, so that a movement skill would be the defining edge in the race? You could just as easily argue that having my Leafy Apocalypse screen-clearing AOE would accomplish the exact same thing! Any ‘ladder’ in these kinds of games isn’t just from one thing or another… kill speed, resource sustain, movement… and… luck (layout, enemy type, etc) play factors. It’s hardly a convincing argument for why Spriggan needs a movement skill…why not the other(s) as well.
Everyone else has at least one? Could you leagve your imaginary moral high ground and come down to earth? Seems like the air is to thin up there and you start to grab for straws while not even engaing with all that was quoted by you and only what you like to try to twist and tear.
We can simply agree to disgree and you can stop to pop in here to give the whole topic a bump again and again with some “Spriggan needs no movementskill becuase reasons I make up!” statements. This will only lead to anwers why a Spriggan needs a movement skill. It’s simply up to the devs and they will most likely say nothing on the topic and dodge it like… always ^^.
The Spriggan does not need a movement skill, its power is in ROOTS, which keep the form grounded. Now if you need movement skills, shift out of form use it, and shift back. Some players want things outside of the archetype to suit their feelings, not based on any “facts”.
This hurts while reading it… stop casting-> shifting to human->using leap->shifting to spriggan → beeing able to cast again takes longer thn to walk the same length backwards on one foot. Another choice of poop sandwiche nice one !
IF there was a spriggan theme that roots it and make it good enough stationary then there would be a standalon reason to spriggan that makes it special. Rightnow Spriggan offers nothing that can’t be achived otherwise while it excludes a basic game feature for everyone else.
It’s not that hard to grasp is it?
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every class has weaknesses that happens to be for the spriggan. The dev’s made the design choice to stick with the archetype, so we all as players are stuck with it and have to adapt. In the beginning poor sentinel was movement challenged class with 2 movement skills. The real issue is that are you going to specialize into a movement skill or keep your current build designs? That would be the trade-off.
And has much changed for the Sentinel? Lunge still requires a target (a perennial complaint) unless you want to use Paranoia (& as a helm there’s additional pressure on the slot since you’d be giving up precious class-specific affixes), it does get cooldown reduction on melee hit but it’s never going to be good for moving out of the way of Bad Things ™ in bosses. Shield Rush still requires a shield unless you spec out of it and is still a channelled skill but now comes with additional bugs (channelling for too short a time means the server doesn’t know you wanted to stop so it carries on moving) which don’t make it ideal for responsive gameplay (or as a dps skill).
Personally I think the main “change” for the Sentinel is perception, that Lunge requiring a target isn’t too bad, not any fundamental mechanical rework
And don’t forget that Sentinel also has access to Smite and Warpath as movement skills for a total of 4.
Unless you’re playing Spriggan form, then the only way to get access to a movement skill is to not be a Spriggan.
What I don’t understand is why the ring gives Summon Vines almost double the cooldown of every other movement skill. It’s almost like they don’t want the Spriggan form to be particularly mobile in a genre that traditionally places movement very highly.
There’s some boots for that. They root the Spriggan, provide some additional thorns for Spirit Thorns, a decent % increased damage and some flat hp regen.
Wasn’t there a shield rush as well? So it totals at 5?
Yeah but said item isn’t a big enough buff, it’s simply a selfroot you take for a buff not worth the crack of yer arse of boiled snow.
He mentioned Lunge and Shield Rush. Plus Smite and Warpath. Total 4.
On the other hand, he forgot Javelin. That’s 5.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition…
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Ah yes! I’m at my first cup of tea aka almost still in bed. Ye right Javelin I knew Sentinel had 5 skillbased options ^^.
No, I mentioned that 2 paragraphs above, it’s one of the “default” movement skills alongside Lunge, the an appropriately spec’d Smite and Warpath as the other two.
Well, it gives an additional 100%-160% increased damage, so if you’re at 700% already then that’s 14%-22% “more” damage, plus it gives 2-3 additional thorns which, given the base of 4 is 50%-75% more damage, as well as a similar amount of more procs (on top of the ball park 14%-22% “more” increased damage) for a net gain of 71% to 114% more damage from a boot slot, which isnt too shabby.
Yup, fair point.
…and I’m over here wondering when Spriggan Form became a Class/Mastery, that it’s being compared with entire other Class/Masteries’ movement skill availability.
Because if we’re going that route, then Primalist has 4 movement skills – Fury Leap, Dive, Rampage and Maul.
Also, don’t forget Void Cleave for Sentinel… it has a movement tag as well.
The forms are, to be fair, different. They lock your skill bar into specific skills & restrict what you’re going to specialise (as any build does), but if you’re playing a shapeshifting build, you usually want to be in the form 24/7 & for Spriggan form that means no movement skill. Unless you can work out how to use Fury Leap, Dive, Rampage and Maul without leaving Spriggan form.
This is going to be true regardless of party comp. Even masteries that have a movement skill are not created equal, and someone is always going to be the fastest while the others see only corpses.
Example would be my Hydra RM, who uses Flame Rush to cast Hydras and hence stacks CDR through the roof. Last time I played that build, my CD on FR was under 1.5s. No one keeps up with me when I group, regardless of what movement skills they can use. For random grouping I have to announce that I will move FAST through echoes so bring a very fast char yourself, as I have had complaints.
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Not to mention that not all movement skills aren’t equal. For example, if you assume you can get a big enough stretch of map without interruptions, shield rush is one of the fastest for long distances. Doesn’t really happen in practice though, since every small rise or fall of terrain will interrupt it, but in theory, given a long enough straight line, shield rush is the fastest skill.
On the other hand, if you’re using shield rush but the map is all twisty, lots of other movement skills will move way faster than that.
So you have to account not only for movement speed, but also if you have a movement skill, CDR and WHICH movement skill you’re using.
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Yeah. And when you pick one, you know what you’re getting into. One is a fast, flying bug… Another is a juggernaut bear, and the last one is a tree. A tree with a great healing/cleanse ability. AOE root/slow. Buffs. And some real good synergies with other (non-Spriggan form skills) in the form of totems. There’s not a single thing about Spriggan, or any of the playstyles for the skill, that scream out “give me a movement skill”. Throwing down a totem, with 2 idols granting a haste %, is more than enough. Shapeshifting forms, while not even a favorite playstyle of mine, have plenty already. The only thing I ever thought they were missing was the ability to re-arrange their skill hotkey bar.
I’ve been a pretty vocal opponent of the homogenization boogeyman, but I don’t think Spriggan needs a movement skill, just because everyone else has one. As I’ve said, it already has plenty, and I just don’t think it fits, thematically.