Some different questions

General
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Hey everyone! Sorry for English
I’ve just become one of you yesterday, warriors, on Steam) I have been searching for some similar games like my favourite GD and TQ for a long time. LE looks great, passive and active skill systems especially. Will see what happens next. But a few things seem to me strange:

  1. First of all, why aren’t the biggest part of items displayed on characters? There are different icons in the inventory tab for all the items. But many of them look the same when they are put on the character. Moreover, quivers (as I know this item types weren’t before in the game) aren’t displayed at all. Is it a bug?
  2. Paladin’s movements look ridiculously (sorry for that). I mean his movements are unnatural. I have such questions to some enemies (regarding animations). I’m playing for Rogue mastery. He doesn’t have such “issues”. Will there be any animation improvements in the future?
  3. Do you have a list of future content patches? Have you considered the idea of jems implementation?
  4. And where can I find more detailed info about game mechanics? For example, an order of damage prevention
  5. Where can I find concrete skill damage?
    Sorry, don’t take it personally, the game is actually great. These are just a couple of ordinary questions =)
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Quivers are a work in progress, since they are equipped as a weapon but they go on the back (unlike every other weapon). The other items not having 2d art reflected in 3d is likely something that they require time to get round to doing (I would assume after they’ve added more content).

There will be animation improvements in the future.

The in-game guide (G by default) is a good place to start, then there’s the forum & discord. For damage reduction, dodge happens first, then resists/block/reduced-damage-taken-effects happen at some point, then damage gets applied to ward, then finally if there’s still damage left it gets applied to your hp.

That’s the tooltip dps in phase 4. It was in phase 2 but they moved it back to phase 4.

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I hope they will add it later, at release mb

Ohh, thanks

:slightly_smiling_face: “reduced-damage-taken-effects”, - is it like “glancing blow” and armour for ex (that’s what the G-menu says, GB reduces 35% damage, armor - all the damage except dots)? they happen after resistances and block or does it mean something else?

oh, yes, one question more. “Detonating arrow” skill, where says “all added bow damage is converted to lightning”. I have a bow with stat “+12 bow physical damage” (basic stat). So will this damage be converted to lightning only?

Thanks one more time and for the helpful image as well

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Yes, glancing blow is an example of a reduced damage taken effect, but I was primarily meaning the effects that you can get on some passives & skills.

The order that armour/resists/block/reduced-damage-taken happens in doesn’t matter, since they’re all % reductions to damage taken, you’d get the same effect regardless of the order.

Yes, that bow damage would be converted to lightning, as weould any other +x bow damage you have.

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Yes, if all of them are multiplicative

Nice!
Can I speed up shurikens cast? And “shift” skill in the passive tree, nod with +10% dmg for 1 point after using it. This increasing will affect the all skills, including shurikens, and even for those which are converted to lightning?)

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Which they are (apart from Dodge which is RNG & binary, hence it needs to go first).

With throwing attack speed or global attack speed (ie, not melee attack speed or cast speed).

Yes, as long as they aren’t channelled.

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excellent!

So then all bow bonuses

Ye, there was mentioned channeling exception. What’s a pity, there are no any marks about it over the UI panel. I didn’t see any signs of increasing dmg when shifting. it’s a bit uncomfortable

…and sorry for annoying you, but… do specified “dexterity” damage bonuses (4% dmg per point) that some skills have affect even the converted skills which weren’t that damage type initially? The main thing is specifying in hint window? And after conversion dexterity damage bonuses will be still actual? :slightly_smiling_face:

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Sorry, bow stuff is still a bit new.

There are 4 different ways (5 if you include minions) for your character to do damage that have no overlap, melee, bow, throwing & spell. If an affix or effect specifies one (eg, melee attack speed) then it won’t affect skills that don’t have that tag (such as Shurikens, which has the throwing attack tag). If you have a global attack speed effect (such as the Swift Assassin passive’s attack speed) then it will affect all attacks (melee, throwing & bow) but not spells.

The 4% damage bonus from attributes (dex or whatever) are damage type (melee, throwing, bow, spell) and damage element (phys, fire, void, etc) agnositic. They will always be applied if the skill has that tag, damage conversion would not affect that.

Damage conversion only affects the tags that are removed (they will no longer affect the skill) and applied (they will now affect the skill). So if you’re converting Detonating Arrow from Lightning to Fire with the Dragon Arrow node, any +% Lightning damage bonuses you have will no longer have any effect, but +% Fire damage bonuses will.

To further complicate matters, if a skill procs something else or has a secondary effect (eg, Detonating Arrow’s Lightning Tendrils from the Arcing Blast node) will inherit any relevant bonuses from the parent skill, but they don’t get converted. So if you took the Arcing Blast node and the Dragon Arrow node, your Detonating Arrow would have a fire explosion but it would also proc some Lightning Tendrils that do lightning damage.

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Are they all multiplicative or additive? And as I understand they are just damage bonuses not
bound to damage type. So it doesn’t matter if I converted my skill to anything or not I’ll still get bonuses to the damage from these stats. Or am I wrong?)

It’s quite strange, after all it is global mod

Cool. Is this bonus multiplicative with melee, cast etc. damage? According to hints most of them is.

Well. I’ll destroy you with questions :joy: I’ve found this one in the item data base - Drelkor's Compass - Unique Longbow - Bow - Last Epoch Item Database
There is a non-basic stat “+(40-50) Bow Physical Damage”. Let’s guess, I have a physical conversion to fire. Ok, after conversion I get percentage bonuses only for final damage type - fire in this case. But what about flat bonuses? Will that flat bonus convert too, if skill has bow-tag?
Are there double conversions here?

Omg. “…will inherit any relevant bonuses from the parent skill, but they don’t get converted”, - conversions won’t do but other bonuses will (those are specifying in tags), right? Then are there no ways to convert secondary effects totally?)

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Not quite sure I understand the question. Melee/Throwing/Bow/Spell as tags don’t do anything, they just tell the game (& you) what affixes will affect the skill. Increased Melee/Throwing/Bow/Spell modifiers would be additive but more Melee/Throwing/Bow/Spell modifiers are multiplicative.

Why would, increased melee damage affect a spell?

It depends on the modifier. “Increased” is additive (add all relevant increased modifiers together then apply them to the base damage), “more” is multiplicative (they are applied separately).

Do you have a specific skill &/or modifiers in mind? It might be easier than discussing generalities.

You add the flat damage, then convert, then apply any % modifiers. So with that bow, you add the implicit (+60) damage to the affix (40-50, lets just take 50) to get the total phys damage of 110. That is then multiplied by the skill’s added damage effectiveness (not in-game at the moment, but assume 100%), giving 110 damage for the skill (plus whatever it’s base damage is).

Since Detonating Arrow’s fire conversion node says it converts all added damage as well, we take the base lightning damage & the added phys damage from the bow & convert both to fire (add them up since they’re now the same element), then apply any % increased fire damage modifiers (& any % increased elemental damage, % increased bow damage & any generic % increased damage modifiers), then take any more modifiers for the skill and apply those separately.

Correct.

I’m not aware of any that convert secondary effects.

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I’ll try to explain. Let’s say I have a weapon with following tags: spell + throwing + dexterity. It’s obviously other bonuses don’t matter. But I’m asking do sum of spell bonuses/throwing bonuses and dex. bonuses (etc. for specific tags) multiply with each other and final skill damage? That’s what I meant. Tag bonuses, as you say, “more” or “increased”

Because I meant a global mod. It’s “global” mod and it should have influence, as I see, on all speeds (melee, cast, spell, throwing)

Ok

Sorry, I don’t. I’ll definitely ask you about if I find, I’m just learning theory now and do some practice when I have free time

Thanks for the explanation

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Ok, just for some clarity, skills have tags, items have affixes.

Affixes on items are “increased” not “more”, so if they were relevant to a skill, they would be added to other similar modifiers then applied. So if your weapon has modifiers for % spell damage, % throwing damage & +dex, and you had a skill that scaled with spell, int & fire then only the spell affix on your weapon would benefit the skill. If, for example, the skill you were using was Flame Reave (fire, melee, int, dex) then only the dex node from that weapon would benefit Flame Reave. However, if Flame Reave had the Catalyst of Ash node allocated (Flame Reave has a % chance to cast a fireball on hit), then the weapon’s spell damage affix would benefit Fireball (since Fireball has the fire, spell, int tags).

Skills can only be affected by effects that are relevant to them. If you had a global increased attack speed passive then that would affect any skills that had “attack” tags (melee, bow or throwing), but it wouldn’t affect spells since a spell is not an attack & skills that have the spell tag don’t have one of the “attack” tags (the exception being more complex skills such as the Primalist’s Tempest Strike which has both melee & spell tags, though any melee modifiers only effect the melee hit of the skill & any spell modifiers only affect the spells that the skill can proc).

In my experience, theory is easier to get your head around when you have examples, so …

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Oh, sounds logically. It’s clear now

I agree. Today later I’ll reach the game and ask on alive “samples” to shred the light on damage accordingt to tags and bonuses finally :slightly_smiling_face:
And one thing more why there are some difficulties is skills don’t have any specifying of base damage on themselves

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I don’t know.

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Hey, here’s I am with screenshots. Could you explain? I have two skills: “Shurikens” and “Flurry”: https://imgur.com/a/qlDLN2N
Tags for “shurikens” are: physical, lightning, throwing attack and dexterity; for “flurry” are: physical, melee, bow attack and dexterity. Next, fox example, I gave some stuffs https://imgur.com/a/e05bpkX
Then I have these passive nodes for shurikens: https://imgur.com/a/0crscDG
Accordings to tags, in this way, I have collected following useful for me bonuses:
a). For “shurikens”. Increased physical damage 14%; increased lightning damage 22%; increased throwing attack damage 19%; 3 dexterity points (3*4=12% dmg); 17% speed for shurikens from passive; +5% dmg from scintillant steel passive node. Now the most curious thing - estimating of damage. “Shurikens” skill has itself base dmg that isn’t specifying. This damage I should multiply by sum of these bonuses (14%+22%+19%+12%+5%)?
Intelligence from a relic doesn’t influence on shurikens despite of this skill now has additional lightning damage due to there is no appropriate tag?
What about affixes “+% chance to slow on hit” from a quiver and a bow? Do they influence on shurikens?
Will “+12 bow physical damage” add to shurikens’ base damage?
“17% speed for shurikens from passive”, it means shurikens themselves flies faster and not throwing attack speed?
Does base attack speed from a bow influence on shurikens? Or does this skill use its base attack speed?
b). For “flurry”. Increased physical damage 14%; melee doesn’t matter due to I’m using bow attacks (I don’t have it though); increased bow attack speed 13%; 12% from dexterity (4% per point).
Final attack speed = 1.05 (base bow attack speed)*13%?
Dmg = base skill damage * sum (14%+12%) for each arrow?
Will “+12 bow physical damage” add to flurry’s base damage?
What about affixes “+% chance to slow on hit” from a quiver and a bow? Do they influence on shurikens?
What about affixes “+% chance to slow on hit” from a quiver and a bow? Do they influence on shurikens?

At all, does weapon base damage influence on all skills or some specific? the same question about affixes (on items) like chance to slow/bleed/etc. (does it matter for all skills?)

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Ok, for the damage calculation,

  1. Take the flat added throwing damage & multiply it by the skill’s added damage effectiveness (100% unless otherwise stated)
  2. Add that to the base damage (not sure what it is off the top of my head) but keep the elements separate
  3. Sum up all of the % increased damage that’s relevant (phys, lightning, throwing & 4% per Dex) by element & multiply the flat damage by 1+% increased
  4. Take those figures & multiply them by any “more” damage from the skill’s tree, but do the multiplications separately (don’t add all the “more” damage up & do the calculation once), though you only have 1 of those, from Scintillant Steel (+5% per point)

Correct, as the skill doesn’t have the int tag it doesn’t benefit from Int.

As long as the affixes on the quiver/bow don’t specify “bow” (or “melee”, but you wouldn’t get those on a bow/quiver) then they’ll apply to Shurikens.

Shurikens is a throwing skill so it gains no benefit from +bow damage or any other bow-related stat (such as bow attack speed).

The Aerodynamic node stats that the Shurikens go further & faster. If it gave “throwing attack speed”, that would allow you to throw more Shurikens in a given time period.

The number of hits (or arrows) you get per second is a little bit more complicated than that. The “increased bow/melee/throwing attack speed” on your character sheet is used as a multiplier for the number of attacks per second, for melee that’s ~1.47 per second, not sure what it is for bows (or shurikens), but yes, you’d take that number (1.47 for melee) & multiply it by the increased attack speed on your character sheet. And that figure should be the sum of your % increased attack speed affixes/passives/etc multiplied by the weapon’s implicit attack speed (eg, 1.25 for katanas).

Flurry is a bit different since it has an added damage effectiveness of 60%, so you take all the flat added bow damage & multiply that by 0.6. Then add it to the skill’s base damage in #2 above.

A weapon’s damage will only affect a bow/melee attack skill (that has the bow or melee tags), not a throwing attack nor a spell.

Skills proc the “chance to …”, but unless specifically stated (ie, that the skill has a node that says it does increased damage to slowed targets) they aren’t affected by the “chance to …” affixes.

Every skill can hit & proc those “chance to …” effects, unless it has the Damage over Time tag (such as Hail of Arrows or Disintegrate).

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Thanks, many things are clear now. But I still have questions =)

ie, “flat throwing damage” in my case and appropriate “flat dmg” when using other weapon types?

Sorry, but what is that? And, according to given example 60% by you for “Flurry” where can I see it?

multiplicative passive tree bonuses, it’s cool!

ok. If an using skill has that tag (“melee” for ex.) then this specified weapon base dmg is added like №2 from your dmg calculation list?

So, shurikens/flurry can’t slow/bleed (and other dots overall) enemies with my affixes from quiver and bow? Sorry, misunderstood a bit these two paragraphs (2nd says skills can unless it has dot). Sorry for a little misunderstanding by me :slightly_smiling_face:

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Yes.

If you hover your mouse over the skill & hold alt it will tell you. If it doesn’t then the default is 100%. It’s a stat that every skill has that the devs use to enable slow/expensive skills do more damage (by acting as a multiplier for the flat damage). Meteor, for example, has an added damage effectiveness of 600%, so every 1 point of flat damage you add gives you +6 damage (before any other multipliers such as all the “increased” & “more” I talked about above).

Yes. If you’re using a skill with the melee tag, then any “added melee damage” (such as the implicit melee damage that all melee weapons have & the various flat added melee damage prefixes you can craft on them).

They generally will unless the affix specifies a skill type (melee, throwing, bow, etc) that doesn’t match with the skill. For example, if you craft some “chance to apply Frailty on melee hit” onto a melee weapon, your melee skills will be able to apply Frailty on hit, but your non-melee skills (such as Shurikens which is a throwing skill) won’t.

So if you craft chance to chill on your bow/quiver, that’s a global modifier (since it doesn’t specify a skill type such as melee, bow, etc) so all of your skills that hit will be able to proc it.

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Thanks for replies. I’ll ask again if I have any questions

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