I think that this game has so many different ways to get good gear so i dont really mind how rng it is. Thanks for @Heavy and @Llama8 for giving more info about ”mechanics” behind it.
Yeah it can be frustrating when something is not going accordingly to plan. But it feels so awesome when you get exactly what you wanted.
What comes about ”Equality” well i dont get the point why T7 should be equally treated with T1 ? They are not equally at the same level.
If i imagine like in fantasy theme wise that we have enchanted gear which has different magical powers What is the odds when you use rune (which is magical) to remove that bigger magical power from item than that way less smaller magical power?
I must confess i’ve very recently discovered that, a lot of players ignores it right now, and most of them have the same exact reaction in answer ? “What ??”
I’m not in love at all with this system, it explains a lot of the disasters i’ve encountered with T7 items. While i think high end items should never be trivialized, just like any high end in-game content, this is too much of “close your eyes and SLAM IT” syndrom as an high level crafting system for a game that isn’t designed for hardcore players. I never naturally closed my eyes while crafting on POE, here i’ve found myself doing so every day, multiple times, at any step of the grind. (talking about T6+, i don’t care at all about T1-T5 stuff)
Including fractures at 98% odds, annulments ruining the item most of times, etc…
I don’t know what’s best for the game, but i know i can’t support this in particular, friend told me he felt like baited by early baby-crafting from T1 to 5, which seems deterministic at first with a touch of RNG when it comes to go for full T4/5 stuff, but late game crafting feels like a total crapfest of ultra RNG stuff.
To me, it makes the whole crafting exactly the same than POE, they’ve simply replaced the basic alt/aug or regal stuff with “kill a million monsters per day to eventually find one day the base with good implicits and good rolls you’ll be able to try your luck with in desperate ways to rework it.”
But at the same time, i know they’ll rework the crafting at some point, this probably simply is a poor placeholder, future will tell what serious crafting will be. I hope this doesn’t stay in game, that’s for sure, quite disgusting on the long run.
Not getting involved in the whole discussion here… but taking a different tack…
How about the Rune of Removal just allows you to select the affix to remove but adds 20 instability for the privilege.
this would solve the potential of making OP gear too easily, added instability penalty would make it VERY hard to replace the affix to a high tier especially if it was a high tier item to begin with - so there would be little point in using it on high tier gear.
removes the added RNG layer and gives the player the choice thereby making it seem “fairer”
Simplifies everything - coding required, crafting process etc.
For me it’s not an issue of being fair. It’s just a path that leads to PoE style trading. Where the only way to buy high end gear is to play a “main class”. If your build isnt meta? Well you’re fucked unless you play a meta build for the first half the season to farm enough resources to actually adjust a base item successfully.
Extremely low success chance modification just limits innovation. The modifications are controlled based on the tiers themselves. The only way to get truly high end gear will eventually be drop exclusive. So limiting customization on an already properly balanced out system isn’t good for the trade economy imho.
So my objections over it wasn’t about the “unfair” part. If it’s just unfair I just don’t use it. Quite simple. The only issue is it would encourage assembly line style “crafting” with whole guilds devoted to churning out very specific affixes flooding the market with only a few different kinds of equipment. It doesn’t suit games that encourage alternate playstyles imo.
Only when the higher tier mod is the one you want to keep. How many times have you found an item with a bad high tier mod that you want to get rid of on an otherwise decent item?
I really don’t know if it sometimes is just exaggeration or some people don’t understand how “random” works.
I already sated it above and will quote myself again:
In this context, weighted would be the better term.
I can understand the frustration, but just throwing around specific statements which are objectively not true doesn’t help with the discussion.
Don’t get me wrong, I can 100% understand the frustration, but in the current implementation of the Rune Of Removal, an equal chance of removing any affix would lead to too easily obtainable high tier items.
And there are also scenarios, where the weighted system also works in your favor.
Just to say it again: I do understand you frustration, but there is still a chance to remove the desired affix on any item.
If you don’t like it, that’s fine.
If you want it to be changed, how exactly would you want to see it?
Let’s try to bring this discussion forward and not circle on the same factual wrong statements
I like the current implementation so I can have moments like these, the payoff feels so good when it hits. Although I can understand the frustrations when it doesn’t work, but I do think it’s very easy to craft a GG item in LE now (and even easier to get a 5/5/5/5).
Haha, i didn’t wanna do it, but i also have some clips to share
With LE’s Loot and Crafting System it is already sooo incredibly easy to get really really good items. But with such a deterministic crafting system, there needs to be some rng involved, otherwise good items would become meaningless.
Some rng I think is fair to usually have a 66-75% chance of failure
Even if you remove the mod you still gotta craft it up to where you want and it could brick on the way. Adding an extra layer of RNG just seems pointless. The 25-33% on average success chance seems more than ok as a starting point to crafting an item. Like sure that 10% felt good. but how about the other 90% that bricks it right out the gate, and the number that somehow got the godluck rng and then got the trashluck rng and brick it as soon as it hits t3.
No one said rng is bad, but it’s just strange to add a weighted system when the odds are already stacked against you in just the default one.
Not to mention this was already an easy to reproduce item. How about the 16-19 to 1-2 chance you’ll brick your exalts trying to get rid of a bad affix taking space . It’s a strange system that I just don’t see the point of. The crafting system already supplies a little rng, and crafting hardcaps at t5. Not really much need to make the process annoying straight at the starting line.
I am totally fine with all the rng layers currently in.
The only thing i already critizied would be the describtion of the Rune Of Removal, to state that it’s actually weighted.
It’s all about expectations.
Eiter don’t craft items you use, unless you have a backup.
Or just don’t expect an item that you find, which is a good crafting base to automatically become an upgrade until you actually crafted on it.
I probably bricked thousands of items sicne i play LE.
But with some of the nuances and knowing the system better, i get used to it and still after thousands of horus playing LE find the crafting system very rewarding.
The pure fact, that the outcome of an item after a success is always 100% what you want is crazy, compared to any other similar game.
That’s the thing. The game is fine, but I’m at the point that I wouldn’t even notice if you rune of removaled rune of removal. It’s by and large useless. You’ll have 100 of them before you ever have items you might even consider using it on.
Should consider using it on.
Also it’s definitely not 100% guaranteed. I’ve fractured items just adding a t1 then t2 suffix.
Depending on how far my current character is, i use it alot on Magic Items with one desired T5 affix and another random undesired affix.
A T5 Magic Item is already a good base to create a T10-T15 Item.
And also i use it on alot of rares too, which is definitely less likely to get a favoured outcome.
If you use a proper loot filter for your current characters progress i do feel like Rune Of Removal are an essential tool.
Noone said something about anything being guaranteed.
If I remember correctly from a post somewhere, the chances of removing an affix are not 100% solely weighted on the tier. It’s more likely to remove the higher tier affixes, but it’s not that you can calculate the chances exactly.
People confusing RNG or the term random with “all chances are equal” doesn’t add to the discussion, either. This is a classical “urn problem”. They weighing solely doesn’t have anything to do with the randomness of things. Just you can predict chances of a certain outcome being more likely than others.
It’s also exactly the same as with the crafting chances of an affix. Chances of success and failure are weighted, too. On 90% success it is more likely to have a successful crafting attempt than a failure. This weighing changes with adding instability. The principle is the same. It’s just more obvious because chances are displayed.
Chances of RoR are not displayed (because theres more going on than just plain weighing of affix tiers). But it should somehow be more visible how it works.
I’m not using the RoR very much. I don’t like that it adds instability. It’s always making an item.more likely to not be perfect, even if you are lucky to remove the wanted affix.
And exactly when the rune could be of use the most - on removing unwanted affixes from exalted items - the chances are more likely you will fail.
I’d like to have the very rare option to choose the affix I want to remove. Maybe by adding crafting mats. Or make the rune extremely rate and let people choose the affix to remove.
See the problem is I haven’t had too much issue finding/making usable gear in the game WITHOUT needing to roll an extra set of dice. So I wouldn’t see myself using it without trying to make endgame items… And that’s where it’s at it’s absolute worst. but hey you only have to grind like 10-20, double exalted items with modifiers that fit your needs before you have a decent chance of removing an unwanted slot.
Like seriously I think it’s better just for time and sanity to ignore the removal rune as a possibility, and just farm for an exalt with already open slots or all modifiers you like. Seems to be about the same likelihood.
The only issue I face is the Instability it causes even using a Glyph of Stability. Very low chances of getting high Tier rolls on desired stats before item fractures.
