I heavily dislike how runes of removal currently function. I understand that they are weighted to remove higher tier modifiers more often- and personally I don’t think this is a great choice. Just getting an exalted item you want to use at all is a challenge, and since exalted items are t6 or t7, and the other mods are more likely to be t1-4, if theres even one other mod on the item you are most likely to remove the exalted modifier. On top of this you also adding a large amount of instability so even if you don’t remove the exalted modifier you’ll be very limited in how much you can improve the item at that point. I don’t like comparing to PoE constantly, but in that game you generally use orbs of annulment (remove an affix at complete random) as a last resort if you are trying to remove a modifier from an item, because taking a 50/50 (or, in Last Epochs case, even worse odds) just feels really bad when the mods are already extremely rare in the first place.
While the rune of removal is very rng and the double rng of removing the correct affix and having a %chance of failure (fracture) can be frustrating.
Removing the correct affix on an otherwise good item will lead to a much better craftign base, depending on how high the affixes are that are still on the base.
So the added Instability is totally fine.
You can even use a Glyph Of Stability in conjunction with the Rune Of Removal.
The only thing i would want is more transparency for the players.
Because the game does not tell you taht a rune of removal is weighted.
Even if they descriptions doesn’t tell you exactly how it works, it should at least state "more likely to remove higher tier affixes)
I think the biggest frustration from using Runes Of Removal is coming from the players expectations, that they have equal chances of removing all the affixes.
But in reality the chances are often slighty against them and so failing alot of times can feel very bad, when you expect it to be 50/50 (or at least equaly on mroe than 2 affixes)
Honestly i have to heavily agree, it makes no sense to me that they’re weighted considering you wouldn’t even wanna touch an item where the affixes you want are lower tier than the ones you don’t.
Wait, what? I didn’t know this. This is a seriously bad design choice. I thought it was purely RNG. Well I guess it means you will just throw away otherwise good items unless the affix you don’t want is the highest tier.
But yeah this should be changed urgently. Having it weighted is dumb and unproductive. It also completely devalues exalted items as said (not that they were very valued in the first place since 99% of them are still trash).
It is purely RNG. Just because it’s rolling based on each tier rather than each affix doesn’t change that.
No it is not. IT should weigth all affixes equally no matter what tier they are. Period. Then it is RNG
All the RNG refers to is how it chooses between the options it has available. There’s no mechanical difference between choosing between 4 equally weighted t5 affixes or 20 equally weighted tiers.
It doesn’t just remove a tier level though, so why would it roll based on tiers? That doesn’t make sense.
If an item has 4 different affixes, it should be 25% for each. Shouldn’t the addition of instability be enough of a drawback?
That’s just how it chooses which affix to remove. I’d assume they’ve just reused the code that they use for shattering items 'cause it’s simpler.
Right, but it isn’t equal. If an item has a T7, a T1, and a T2 and it has a 70% chance to remove the T7, that is bad design (I don’t know the actual percentages). While it is still technically “random” because you are rolling a dice, almost all rolls just result in failure. Seems like bad design.
It is equal though, it’s “equal” based on the number of tiers rather than the number of affixes. If you had a pie & cut it into 10 equal slices (one per tier) then you’d be confused as to why the 7 out of 10 slices were chosen much less than the 1 out of 10 or 2 out of 10. That’s what the game is looking at.
It feels bad, yes, just like it feels bad when you get a rare low tier affix on a high tier item, shatter it & don’t get any shards from the rare affix. RNG always feels bad if there’s a low chance of failure and you fail (or it fails you rather).
It would be much better if Rune of Removal removed all tiers equially but instead adds more instability depending on how much total tiers the item has. Then it would be more fair towards players.
I’d personally get behind basically any other"balance" aside from it just robbing one of the 2 highest tiers(why you wanted the item) 90% of the time
It isn’t. If would be equal if it was removing 1 tier. The roll is based on tier, but the removal is based on affix. That is poor design. It is a negative lottery system. The more you put in, the higher the chance of losing.
It doesn’t even sound that bad when taken in a vacuum. It makes sense that it should be harder to acquire the most powerful. The problem comes when it is compounded with the other increasing difficulties of RNG.
Rolling a good item, rolling a good affix, rolling that affix as T5, then successfully rolling the upgrade from T5 → T6, then successfully rolling the upgrade from T6 → T7. ALL OF THAT, and then you are expected to take an extreme negative weighting to remove one of the junk mods on the item? That doesn’t even consider the possibility of there being more than one junk mod to remove and that one will be at an even higher chance of failure, which is also doubled up because of possible breaking failure for instability and the failure of removing the good affix.
Crafting in this game is TRASH! It’s boring and narrow, it’s punishing and doesn’t feel good. It’s decidedly unfun.
I presume you also dislike PoE’s crafting with it’s 50 trillion to 1 chance of crafting something decent with all it’s multiplicative layers of RNG?
Yes. It is. Just because its not equal in the way you want it to be doesn’t mean it isn’t equal. Each affix on the item has a set number of Tiers. Which affix is removed is weighted, based on the number of tiers that affix has.
There is RNG in this game. This is true. This is true of every ARPG. You can (currently) do all content in this game without T6/T7 items. They’re meant to be chase items. Some argue getting perfect items (T20) is too easy. Personally, I think its pretty balanced as is.
I agree that its frustrating that you have such a low chance of succeeding with Rune of Removal. Then again, it would probably be too powerful if each affix had equal chances of removal based solely on the number of affixes, and not the current implementation.
This is an “lol” moment to me. It’s not punishing, at least, not overly so – there has to be balance. You have a gripe about ONE component of the system. This is like saying if you can’t always win at a game the game is TRASH and decidedly unfun. I’m sure you wouldn’t say that of every game. As far as boring and narrow – I’m not sure I think its entirely boring, though it could be a little more fun. I’d say in the current state it is probably a little narrow, just due to the current choices you have for certain runes/glyphs. However, there are going to be additions to the crafting system.
Using “period” in a discussion is something that i would not recommend.
Especially when talking about something that you maybe not fully understand.
RNG itself doesn’t has anything to do with “equal chances”.
The definition of RNG (Random Number Generator) is a program that creates a random number in a certain bracket and then the generated number get’s applied to a system with specific rules.
In this case a weighting system.
RNG is RNG, no matter the chances.
I think the system how it currently works is actualy fine, the only thing i would like to see in a system like this: A little bit more transperency for the player.
The player doesn’t have to know how exactly the system works, but a simple line like:“Is more likely to remove higher tier affixes” would be enough, so people don’t think they have a 50/50 chance for a 2 affix item with a T7 and a T1 affix for example.
The system it self is not that bad, but in conjunction with all the other rng layers (like rolling a good base item, rolling synergistic affixes, rolling a good implicits etc.) it does feel bad if the player thinks they have “equal chances” and failing multiple crafts in a row.
If the player at least would know that the chances are not equal, the exceptations are very different.
I do hate PoE crafting. The randomness doesn’t even factor as an issue in that game though as even getting to the point where that would be a bother is so prohibitively expensive. I just buy gear from trade in that game. I have never seen most of the red maps in the game. Never seen the majority of the “end game” of that game. I enjoyed the actual gameplay for a long time though.
LE has a gear problem. There isn’t anything that is really “chase”. There is no defined item to hunt for. The uniques are easy to get so aren’t really chase. The only items that get to the level of being “chase” are those that someone could craft into a T20+. It’s boring and removes one of the motivations for playing the game. By the time I get to the point where I am even thinking about trying to farm optimal craftable gear, I am done with the character and have no motivation to play anymore. That may not be just the gear causing that. That could just be a general lack of anything to strive for later in the game (level 75+).
I am going to drop out of this discussion though as it is getting off topic. I don’t like this Rune though. I have used it twice since its release and both times it removed the 1 affix I wanted to keep. I just shatter them now and try to filter for the items I want to craft on.
Bad example since annoyingly stacked “crafting” odds is kinda directly responsible for a large influx of new players.
Personally I think the crafting is good, but I think the removal rune adds one too many layers of RNG to really be worth it at all. What are the chances of rolling an item with only one suffix you don’t like and high enough suffixes to make you want to risk wiping a slot and likely not even being able to get a T5 in it’s place sue to instability?
With that already being low chance, having a 75% chance of ruining the item, as well as increased chance to later ruin it while upgrading, seems like it’s more than enough of a drawback. The remainder just seems like overkill for no real reason.
Overall the crafting is fine, but the removal rune seems like it’s going to be exclusively used in the top of the top by players who can afford to buy 100 of the same affixed exalts to mass spam until they get a good item… That situations seems kinda familiar to PoE refugee’s, and not in a positive way.
Dev stream today pointed to → will get real random most likely. 