Rune of ascendance

General
1

Hello. Last days i used about 20 runes of ascendance on 2 handed axes to get Apatthy’s Maw. But 19 times i got always one of 2 axes, Harthenon’s vow and Bone Harvester. 1 time i had a scales of lemniscate.

Is there a way to know the chance of a rune of ascendance to turn into a certain item? Can it turn into an item that drops from a boss for example? And how do you best use that rune?

2

Runes of ascendance only turn into random drops.

https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/items/UAzAcEYHYE4g

As you see in the link to the DB this axe is dropped by certain encounters and therefor not in the pool. You can look at all the axes there and those with “Random Drop” can come out of the rune. The ones you got are the most common 2handed axes you can get out of it.

3

What @Macknum said + try collecting RoAs and base items and use a lot of them one after another (as opposed to just using them as soon as you get the chance). That way you should be able to “cheat” RNG a bit and get more diverse uniques.

Since only base item type matters, you can get a load of, for example, axes just by jumping through campaign towns and buying them from vendors, or if you’re playing Merchants Guild, just buy cheapest axes that you can find (keep in mind that after 1.2 is released cheapest items will be flat 1k gold [because of MG tax introduction]).

4

Ok, thx for the info. I have to say it’s a little dissapointing. If that rune has the same drop chance as low level uniques that drop randomly, it might just drop a unique instead. The way it works makes it a bit redundant imo.

5

… What on earth are you saying ? Using them ‘one after another’ doesn’t change the outcome at all. It’s not a slot machine and you’re not trying to “trick the system”.

Maw is a specific drop from Orobyss (and now Confluence Woven).

You can’t “cheat the rng”. What are you talking about ?

Edit : Sorry if it was too harsh. But if you think you can trick RNG, we should talk about that in private. I can give you my infos if you want to talk to someone.

1 Like
6

I know that Maw is a boss specific drop and I wasn’t referring to boss specific drops. By cheating the RNG I meant the RNG nature of rolling values from RAND_MIN to RAND_MAX. If you do it in quick succession the results should be more diverse. Example - Online C Compiler - Programiz

7

The time between each attempts does not influence the result.

8

Yeah, it’s bizarre that people think that this can happen. It’s not the first time, back in the day there was “someone” who thought that you could improve your chances to not fracture an item crafting by crafting a different item before it…

9

Yes it is redundand, because having multipel avenues that you can work on in paralel is great, especially for CoF/SAF/SCF players.

Dropping a unique instead is not hte same, as that rando mdrop will not be targeted.

LE offers various different ways to achieve and get the same or similar items, which is very good.

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10

Except most RAND implementations are based on clock and seed. If clock value changes so will result. If you progress the seed (by for example random spawn) it will also change the result.

Doing RoAs in succession limits potential changes seed variable, because you only progress it by using RoAs instead of progressing it by spawning mobs and their randomized movement/attacks.

11

So you are assuming, without any proof but still holding it as a fact, that EHG is using TIME as a factor for their RNG ?

12

I’m assuming that because I know for a fact that RAND function in most programming languages does it.

13

Big edit because the sassy response is just not cool. Sorry if it was a jerk reaction.

So you know for a fact that RAND function use straight time (without any other process on the numbers) in most progamming languages’, right ?

Are… you really sure about that ? What evidence led you to that conclusion ?

Is it possible that you are making generalization to validate some personal belief and behavior ?

@TaurusHORN And I mean it; if you need to talk to someone, please -for fuck sake- reach out. <3

14

Well, I never said that RAND uses straight time, it could be using post processes as well.
But that’s moot, as I did have a quick look at Unity documentation for how their rng works.
Their Random class uses Xorshift128, and to quote their docs “It is statically initialized with a high-entropy seed from the operating system, and stored in native memory where it will survive domain reloads. This means that the generator is seeded exactly once on process start, and after that is left entirely under script control.”.

So now there are a few ways the seed can get progressed, and it all depends on how server-side is implemented:

  1. The seed is global per server instance, for example EU-West, and is global for all characters there. That way all players on that server are progressing the seed, so yeah, everything is random AF.
  2. The seed is global per area instance, for example Cultists Camp town area, and is progressed by other players actions that are presently there. If somebody gambles or uses crafting the seed would be progressed, so again we have more randomizations in RNG output, however that could be nullified by going into an empty instance, or maybe even mob area and clearing it all out.
  3. The seed is local to a player/character, so now it depends on whether player is in mob area or town area. If in mob area then random movement of mobs also progresses the seed. If player is in town, then only his actions are progressing his seed. Now here is where we could “cheat” the RNG, and get some diverse items from using RoAs in succession, simply because each consecutive Random call would be progressing seed only after each RoA use.

If you are playing true offline then seed must be local to player/character, simply because there is no server connection, so it is variant 3 all the time.

There is also a question on how the game actually determines which unique to change the base item into. Lets just say that we have 100 uniques items with the same drop chance, so calling Random.Range(1, 100), should give a different unique almost all the time. However if we change that call to Range(1, 100000) with having an item breakpoint every 1000 points then we could see more of the same item in a longer run of using RoAs, simply because result of 893457 and 893874 would be giving same item, but of a different quality (for example more high tier affixes the higher the value after the breakpoint).

15

Why would mob movements do that?

It rolls for a unique first (twice) then if it fails it gives you a non-unique.

16

Because if they would not progress the seed then they would be doing the same thing over and over again. This only applies to mobs that have multiple moves, and those that’s movement is not hard-coded.

That is what happens for drops isn’t it? I meant the determination of RoA outcome.

1 Like
17

I imagine if it chooses a specific unique on the first roll, fails on the second it’d then go back to the first roll to choose a second unique & reiterate until it succeeds on the second roll.

18

Except RoA is a way for you to filter out unwanted unique types. If you want a unique ring and use 20 RoAs, you get 20 unique rings.
If it dropped a unique instead, you’d get uniques of all types and maybe 1-2 rings only.

It will randomly roll for one of the possible uniques, if that unique has reroll chance, it will roll the reroll chance. If it succeeds you get that unique, if not it will reroll all uniques except that one. Repeat the process until it either succeeds in the reroll chance roll or you get one without reroll.

19

Fair enough. In this case I’m guessing that all “good” uniques need to be rerolled, so that makes “cheating” the system a lot harder when you are looking for a specific good unique.

20

Yup, you’re very knowledgeable and what you’re saying in this response is true.

But you’re still assuming a lot without any evidence.

For Xorshift128 or any prng, time is not (anymore) directly relevant in determining the outcome. Maybe the initial seed ? But that’s not much. No matter the effective entropy, you usually still mix with things like server time, user id or what not.

And it would never be as simple as “click fast and you will get more chances to get what you want”, which is the insane thing that you suggested first.