It was writen to/about all the people who have “white knighted” / agree with skill respeccing as it currently stands (“This topic got white knigthed a ton by people”). If you meant it to only to refer to specific people you might wish to use less generic or wide ranging terms (& I do accept that you’re not a native English speaker).
Yeah, I’d agree with that, but calling one side names isn’t going to help that is it?
The devs do & as you say, it’s their choice. If people didn’t want others to reply to their posts, they could PM the devs directly. Post something in the open & you’ll get replies.
That’s not what you said though (& again, not a native English speaker).
So? There isn’t always common ground to find in a disagreement.
Relevantly, I’ve always been a supporter of the current system because I support the goal of creating friction to “swap builds on the fly” style gameplay. There’s no common ground for me to find with someone who wants immediate/frictionless respecs. There’s no common ground for them to find with me. That doesn’t mean there is a problem, just that we want two fundamentally opposed things.
Because, for many of us, the current reality is already a common/middle ground. Many of the issues newer players are complaining about have already been addressed in the past. If we just fixed everything, every time some new player came along, and had an issue, we’d be stuck with something resembling D3 in a few months.
Just because you have an opinion, doesn’t make it the correct one. And, just because you don’t like something, doesn’t mean it’s broken. I’m sorry those are such tough concepts.
Yeah, but they’ve sold 1 million copies of the game, and like 20-30 have found it to be such a glaring issue, that they need to post a new topic about it every week. That’s hardly the dire issue it’s been pawned off as…
Ok, riding off on my White Horse, to do some more White Knighting…
Well there is certain behaviour that is named a term. I don’t say all people are white knights in that regard.
If there are people with problems and people who obviously don’t care about said problems or have no intrest in change when it comes to said topic then something is off. If White knighting is a slur considered calling someone names then I’m realy sorry.
I don’t like on the fly swapping as well but I like some kind of armory approach where I can save 2-3 builds for a toon. I don’t need it but I think a “go to town to change your layout and everything you did is reset/failed” approach wouldn’t be bad. You can’t pick and choose and swpa a whole build in an blink of an eye but you can say “I want to play my toon differently so I just change my layout for X hours to have something different without replaying the whole game”.
Yes but there have been not only people who wante D3 style respeccs. There were several ideas to it and from my non native speaker point of view those were disregarded and belittled all the same.
Then again I’ll reread the stuff because I’m not in the best place right now and maybe I messed up… wouldn’t be the first time ^^.
Do you mean some new players? This isn’t just one person who is unhappy and I get their point and reasoning quite fine.
Yeah and most likely we’ll never hear of 990k of said players because most people just play the game ^^. I don’t think a reaccuring topic that pops up even more after more people and new people find their way into the game should be looked into.
I am a pretty consistent “respec complainer” in games. I always want the ability to respec more, and I will mod any SP game I can to do so.
HOWEVER…
I actually really like the skill respec in LE. And the reason is because I feel it strikes the perfect balance between enabling customizability while not killing any sense of progression.
Leveling up is fun. It’s why for a lot of us, the most exciting part of the game is before we get to the end, and we are constantly unlocking new skills and abilities to try out. Respeccing is also fun, I love being able to change up what I was before and try out a new style of gameplay.
And I feel the way that LE has done skill respec has like perfectly merged these two experiences. When you respec skills, it costs you no gold, and you get to put a pretty decent amount of points in your skills to get started. From there, you get to actually level up your skills again, just like you were leveling in the beginning. I feel like this really captures that exciting feeling of leveling and unlocking new abilities whenever you respec, and it doesn’t really cost you anything but a temporary reduction in power.
You get skill exp just by playing the game as normal, it’s just an added layer of progression to make it more exciting.
Nice post and I’m there with you outside of cheating in SP games .
One thing is still a bit debateable because it was mentioned as well some times:
Some people are unhappy with the fact that they loose levels and have to regrind them. So they lost progression and need to reprogress to get where they want to be again and again as many times as they respecc.
I think this is a matter of perspective really. I don’t really see this as grinding because I’m not really changing what I was going to do anyway.
If I was going to do monos before respeccing, I’m still going to do monos after respeccing. If I was going to do the campaign before respeccing, I’m still going to do it after.
I guess the only exception would be if you’re doing like super top-tier content and it’s literally impossible to do without having a fully complete build. For this, maybe it would be nice to have an option for players to pay some kind of gold price to skip the skill leveling, since those players will likely be rolling in gold anyway.
Yeah perspective matters a lot. So from your point of view it would be no loss if your toon get’s rerolled to lvl 50 each time you log out because you would do the same again anyway? This is overexxagerated I know i just picked one example to deliver a point.
For some grinding 10 skillevels is something that is done in 20 minutes and to others it simply feels like a punishment.
I think the longer people play the game (if the keep up with the patch notes) the less of an issue this will be but right now I think it’s one of the bigger issues people have for a lot of different reasons.
Yeah perspective matters a lot. So from your point of view it would be no loss if your toon get’s rerolled to lvl 50 each time you log out because you would do the same again anyway? This is overexxagerated I know i just picked one example to deliver a point.
Nah that’s not really what I mean. If my character level gets de-leveled it greatly reduces my capability to do what I want to do. If I am level 50, I can’t really do level 90 monos. I will have to grind for a very long time to get back to them.
However, if I have to relevel a skill, very often my power isn’t diminished to the point where I can’t do what I want to do. I’ve repeatedly nearly fully respecced my Runemaster, and had no issues at all clearing level 90 monos. I kind of even like that I unlock things gradually because I get to see how things unfold, as well as get that “progression” experience again.
Also, leveling your skill up is pretty fast. Like maybe 1.5 hours from picking a new skill to having it maxed, and you don’t spend any resources doing this, you just play the game and it levels up. All your skills level up at the same time too, so even if you fully respec, you’ll be up and running in probably 1.5-2 hours. And you’ll get the vast majority of your points back in like the first half an hour because the later points take longer.
As a new player, I’ve actually respeced all my skills at once many times and I never really had an issue with it. I did that level 3-4 and lost a couple skill points, I did that at level 30ish when I switched to earthquake during the campaign, I did that at level 70ish when I switched to flame wraiths (at the time only melee wraiths cause I didn’t even have the idols).
At no time did I have difficulty progressing and getting back all the skill points. And I’m not a player that has 1k+ hours of gameplay. I currently have less than 300h after almost 6 months.
I think most of the issue players have is just looking at their skill points going from 7 to 2 and just stopping there fuming about it. If they just kept on playing, they would see that it doesn’t really have that much of an impact and they get their points back in no time.
Weird. I have 4 toons all in the high 90’s level and doing empowered etc. For each character I respec’d multiple times while leveling up, I’m talking 10+ times changing skills or passives around.
With each of these characters I’ve also respecc’d multiple times in the end game. I’m not a guide follower and I’m a person who likes to test out everything. I change stuff around on skills or even swap in new skills quite often.
Yeah I do the same. I honestly wouldn’t want to just be able to swap fully leveled skills around constantly. It would kill the sense of progression for me.
The only thing I would like is to have two builds that I can swap between so I don’t have to lose my “favorite” spec whenever I want to experiment.
Strongly Agree,
“Its the one thing that diablo 3 does so much better, you can change builds on the fly and it is pure fun.”
+1 !!!
hope the dev will add something like this.
Not sure how u can not like on the fly swapping but u suggest load outs. Imo what ur discribing is pretty much swap builds on the fly. Only difference is u have load outs.
My issue with this is u learn to deal with content with more than one build rather than one. With one build u actually learn what its weak ppints are and what it can and cant handle. Load outs or swapping on the fly teaches u to avoid learning this
Load outs and swapping on the fly just make the game a snooze fest
Oh this build doesnt work for this dungeon hotta switch to this load out
This isnt call of duty. I hate load outs in this genra
Isn’t PoE2 going to have basically the equivalent of loadouts with how they are making it so weapon swapping actually changes your passive tree on the fly?
I don’t think loadouts are in and of themselves bad in aRPGs. For Last Epoch, I would like it if loadouts were something you could unlock through gameplay achievements. It would give people another thing to work towards.
Don’t bother bro. People will tell you the system is fine and fun and how the roleplay is important even if you’re not a roleplayer roleplaying in an ARPG.
But since it’s how the devs want it and it’s their playground just get used to it. But yeah, it sucks to want to change a few bits and bobs to try a different tackle and now you’re sucking your thumb for the next hour getting those skills points back.
It does not encourage faffing around with builds. But it’s also a niggle, game’s cool as is.
Yes i believe so. Having load outs isnt a problem when thw game is designed for something like that. Aka balanced for it
Poe is going to be balanced around this. Making weapon swapping a core to builds. D3 wasnt which is why that game is a snooze fest. On top of other things. Swapping on the fly just means ur going to end up experiencing all build faster and in turn u will be done with the game/cycles/seasons way faster.
LE imo isnt balanced with the ideaof load outs. Having load outs or swapping on the fly just for the sake of it imo isnt good.
On the fly swapping is: murdering all adds in a map with an AoE build then click a button and all of the sudden you have a single target skill build.
With the example I made you kill all enemies on the map with an AoE build, go to town, change your build and go back to the map. Poof the map is reset, the monolith failed and so on.
You still choose what build you play and you need to look out when you switch it. So it’s not on the fly ^^.
Other peoples issue is to play a complete new toon if they want to play their main dmg skill in a different way. Let’s say warlock for example if you want to play it on fire dmg or bleed dmg. You need to play 2 toons simply for this or respecc every time your skills and passive tree if you want to play the other iteration of the build. Loadouts would help specificly those cases.
I just wish there were a choice to help people who want a second specc or who want to toy arround with more then one build without replaying the whole game up to emp monos. I don’t think is much about learning or swapping builds when something isn’t working out. It would be just QoL you can use but don’t have to ^^.
At the end of the day the discussion is mmod anyway because we get what we get ^^.
I wouldn’t mind loadouts if they were implemented with the current restrictions in mind, that is, they take your gold, if you have enough, and they set your skills to the minimum level. Once you relevel them, you can then assign the missing points.
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