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Rerolling Implicit values?

Is there a way to do this that I haven’t found out yet? It really stinks to get a well rolled item, but with crap, uncraftable implicits

Rune of Shaping can reroll your implicit values on an item.

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literally JUST dropped my first rune of shaping haha

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Note that it is very likely to reroll to average values, so you will probably not get very good rolls

I would like to add that you will never get a perfect roll although according to one of the devs it should be possible (maybe in theory) but I am quite sure its not.

Improbably is not impossible. The rune of shaping is weighted towards middle of the road rolls that doesn’t mean it can’t roll min/max, it’s just unlikely. People generally aren’t good at statistics, especially in small amounts (when it’s entirely possible to get an unfavourable run).

What you say is true of course but in reality is feels like it is impossible because it practically is.
I actually dont get the point why it must reroll a moderate value? Can you explain that @Llama8 pls if you know the reason behind it.

It’s likely to help you reroll a crap implicit (on an otherwise good item) rather than to help you get a max roll.

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Hmm this makes sense but why does it basically exclude me from getting a max roll? Logically if I reroll any value there should be a chance to get a max roll.
But I will accept it as it is. Its not bad for the game I am just still wondering.

I understand the philosophy, but the reality as you said Llama is that it ALREADY is incredibly difficult to get high rolls if everything were evenly weighted. The implicit values have huge ranges in this game.

To further weight it down towards the middle is unnecessary and punishing.

It doesn’t exclude you from getting a max roll, it’s just weighted towards getting a medium roll. Improbable is not impossible.

Not all of them have “huge” ranges, some of them (~1/2 of 1-handed swords, for example) don’t have any range at all. The devs have said that they like having larger ranges since that promotes the hunt for better loot, and while I get that, I’m personally not a fan of larger ranges. And while it’s nice to have a high/max roll, it’s really not necessary.

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im running a minion build, the ranges for almost every piece of minion implicit is about 30. By natural drop, the odds of getting a well-rolled implicit value is insanely rare (in the millions). The odds of getting that PLUS useful mods…now add to that a crafting system designed to heavily weigh the middle range. It is FUNCTIONALLY impossible to get high or even medium-high implicits.

Sure, in the long run the %s on the implicits are somewhat negligible but still…

It’s not that bad. A Skeletal Sceptre has implicit ranges of 53-59 adaptive spell damage & 25%-65% minion damage, so you have a 1 in 7 chance of getting a max roll on the adaptive spell damage (though if you’re a minion build, that’s likely less important) & 1 in 41 chance of getting a max roll minion damage. Combined you therefore have a 1 in 287 chance of getting both max rolls.

A Dragonbone Axe has 7-10 minion damage & 70%-100% minion damage so you have a 1 in 4 chance of getting a max roll on the flat damage & 1 in 31 of getting a max roll on the % damage & 1 in 124 chance of getting a max roll on both.

The Soul Harvester Axe is quite a bit worse with 100%-166% on both it’s minion implicits resulting in a 1 in 4,489 chance of getting max roll on both.

Obsidian Axes aren’t as bad as a Soul Harvester if you want max rolls on both implicits (only 1 of which is minion-based) at 1 in 1,296.

We don’t know how weighted it is towards the middle ground, only the devs (maybe @Mike_Weicker would be willing to weigh in) can tell us. Maybe they’ve just used a normal/Gaussian distribution so you’ve got a ~68% chance of getting a roll in the middle 1/2 (ish) of the range:

Prove it, with a decent sized sample.

I know it feels bad to not get high rolls, but they aren’t necessary. And the devs do take feedback like this onboard, they’re going to be making some changes to crafting (re the fracturing I believe) to mitigate the “feels bad” moments.

Hey, so the normalizing function isn’t as harsh as you might think. It’s really simple, it just rolls twice and takes the average.

This has 2 main purposes, one: it reduces the chance of a crap roll. Because you only have a crack or two at it usually, getting a low roll feels really bad. Averaging two rolls makes it more likely to get a useable roll rather than effectively bricking the item if it only has one shot left. The second reason is to help emphasize really good drops. It means that going out and killing stuff is just a little bit better overall.

We put the item into the game when we received a large amount of feedback that people were finding otherwise amazing items with poorly rolled implicits and no way to even try and improve that, making the items feel really bad to even try crafting on because it had a limited potential.

Now, while rune of shaping is not getting a major rework, the new system does have some pretty significant knock on effect changes that will change this interaction and make getting a high roll implicit easier on certain drops. Like, items that drop with something already rolled on them. I don’t know how to explain it without going into how the crafting is changing. It’s going to be better.

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Tip here, if you use a rune of shaping to up the implicits also slap on a glyph of stability if you have extra available. I can tell you from experience however-it’s not worth wasting the mats especially early on. Don’t waste time crafting gear-just farm it. Keep moving through the quest line or the mono’s. You’ll get plenty of drops to work with. AND keep checking the vendors! You would not believe the sweet gear that drops from them. +2 stats all the time to the really good shards. Good luck!

NGL, slightly disappointed that there’s not some super-awesome maths involved…

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Yea, having the math be straight forward really helps comprehension so we try to lean in that direction when we can.

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If it doesn’t use the Greek alphabet, it’s not proper maths.

sulk

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Excellent, thanks for the info! Straightforward math = better. Let’s not slip into the pit of despair that is “other game” insane math :slight_smile: