unfortunately this is the intended design. i made a very similar observation post when the legendary system was first added in beta and when i asked to make it easier i got a direct response from the lead dev guy “That’s not the kind of game we are trying to make.” (in regards to making it easier to obtain good items)
You’re leaving out the additional 350 attempts each time your LP craft bricks the wrong affix(es).
RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG
Just RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG being RNG…
It’s a bitter dicotomy.
MG makes the item hunt easier, and character progression quicker. But makes the rest of the game feel empty, and actual farming feels pointless.
CoF makes character progression slower, and the item hunt harder. But makes the rest of the game feel purposeful, but actual farming (still)feels pointless.
Correct i and many old school arpg players said this, i legit quit cof last night after 100 hours of nothing and finding out the merchants guild offered all the items wifh higher lp for less then 1M gold. I have 4m gold.
Rerolled to mage, will play it until dragons dogma 2, launches march 22nd, rhen i am out, done with the drop rate none sense, especially with nexon and tencant thing
Welcome to RNG… What does Tencent have to do with anything lmao?
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Not gonna derail the thread about it. Go watch my video. Just mentioned it in passing. But ye, i and others are frustated with the rng
Not an airport, no need to announce your departure. Goodbye.
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Yes, success for LP 1 is 25% ( 4 possible outcomes)
For LP 2 it’s 16,67 to be perfect. (6 possible outcomes)
LP 3 it’s 25% again. (4 possible outcomes)
LP 4 it’s 100% (1 possible outcome)
To be exact here.
Since LP itself is something which is ‘beyond normal’ for high-end uniques though that has actually very little meaning.
Compared to a ‘base unique’ your outcome is 100% positive, always. You get an extra stat and you only use exalted items with 4 proper stats that are helpful on it.
After the first ‘non optimal’ attempt it’s another story of you get an upgrade.
Can you deny that having a 1 LP unique compared to a 0 LP unique is always an upgrade?
Even getting another 1 LP when already owning a 1 LP legendary can be an upgrade.
1-2 is an upgrade.
2-2 can be an upgrade.
And so on.
So even with the hyperbole you added after that’s the situation in reality.
You can take it or leave it, the base situation after all won’t ever change in this game. If it makes you too unhappy then there’s solely the door left. If you can stomach it… enjoy the aspects you enjoy.
As for adjustments along the line though? Sure!
They won’t change the basic premise on the other hand, you have a boatload of RNG stacked together at any given time in any given situation. Loot drops, damage numbers, enemy spawns, chosen attack patterns to a degree, even the layouts for monoliths and the whole web there.
It’s there to stay, simple as that. So what are you complaining about?
Does it?
I would say you’re not using MG properly then as every decent drop is a deterministic outcome leading you guaranteed closer to your goal as you can sell it should you personally not need it.
The end-result of your whole argumentation after all comes down to simply choosing your most enjoyed outcome, having the game math out how much effort is invested and then mindlessly playing towards it.
That’s the absolute end-result of removing chance.
And as you mention it… MG already makes it pointless for you, so why the heck are you arguing for the existence of RNG in the first place if it enhances your experience rather then dampening it?
The only reason I can follow up beyond it is ‘currently it’s too hard for me to acquire and I want it easier to do so’. Because neither situation would be more enjoyable for you and you even told us so… which leaves only this one left behind.
Which is also wrong.
CoF makes progression through the game towards the top-tier vastly easier, it trivializes it by the time you make your second character even.
MG on the other hand has a vastly higher possible floor for end results, does not much beyond your non LP uniques during progression though.
Yes, the equivalency currently between the factions is a mess.
Something I’ve fairly extensively argued about and which needs to be addressed direly in my eyes.
What Nexon and Tencent have to do with it is beyond me though, that’s solely on EHG and the mechanic not being fully thought out yet.
Understandable for a studio which never before had to deal with those things as well as it being the first actual iteration of the system.
At least provide the time-tag and the link if you make such arguments. Why should someone search for your content and waste time? It’s on your to provide that stuff here.
Technically, they wanted to scratch the Bazaar completely and design around drops only.
It was the massive feedback from players wanting an economy that had it implemented, especially as it was a promise during Kickstarter. (iirc)
So AkTuAlLy, the game isn’t designed around an economy and trade.
The fact it’s a faction means that if the faction system ever gets expanded, only the ‘original’ design benefits from it, not the Trade inclusion.
For example, they could add a deterministic faction, focused on boss drops or guaranteed affixes, at the cost of other drops, and that would be fine for most CoF-players, because it’s a “altoholic” vs single-build player choice.
If he wanted to leave he wouldn’t make such a big drama about his feelings, leave or play dude! 
For that to work properly EHG needs to drop the usage limitations related to factions though.
Imagine what would happen if you had a character in CoF and another drop-related faction, one around specific boss drops for example.
So now you get the generic drop-buff from CoF and the specific drop-buff from the bosses… but can’t do shit as you can’t combine em since you can’t cross-use either.
That must feel like stepping into the worst squishy fresh pile of shit you’ve ever stepped in.
Which I see as a major issue for the future of the game currently, otherwise it would be a fantastic idea and I hope EHG drops those limitations before long as they’re arbitrary and only damaging currently.
Not really, because you made the choice in advance.
If you generally play builds that rely heavily on random drops, or mostly built around Exalts, then CoF is the superior.
If you wanted a build focused on very specific rare affixes, or multiple boss drops (my current warlock build runs 4-5 boss drops) then the other faction would be better.
Would it be a pain to swap? Well yeah, but so is going from CoF to MG, there would be little difference there.
And that’s not even the point, really. The thing people forget is that the game is actually designed around CoF. MG is just an easy mode and, by going by the general complaints, could do with a nerf or Flavour cost increase.
I was purely commenting what we’ve, not what we could have had. And i still think their kickstarter defines perfectly what was their intention, and what we’ve in the game today. It’s not only about a faction, it’s about the global design choice there on how the game is balanced regarding loots. No need to take that tOnE, economy was well in from the very beginning:
“[Trading] Player economy is one of the most enjoyable aspects of this genre for many players and we want to do it justice. […]”
The MG faction choice is the game as it’s designed to be. Surely they did their best on this point:
“We are designing this system very carefully to ensure that while the Bazaar can be a fantastic way to find certain items, it will never overshadow the rewards of engaging with the world yourself.”
Still, they have to balance it in a way trading has an interest, and with the cycles’ duration in mind. CoF helps a bit, but it can only do so much. So like in the case of the OP, you’ve to balance how you’ll enjoy the game the most. If you want specific items faster more than anything else, MG is probably better suited to you.
Bye. 5char
Yes, I made a choice how to acquire my items. I never made a choice to have my item usage taken away from me.
CoF hits a clear-cut limit after a while, it’s a fantastic system until then but the moment you reach that you’re stuck in the system or you need to re-do all your gear progression from scratch.
That obviously feels like shit and is a bad system implemented hence. There’s other options available and I simply hope EHG will consider and take those roads.
Because at the end of the day CoF is fantastic until you reach the top-tier stuff… and then? Well… then nothing can beat trading.
Currently you chose between having a grand enjoyable time in progressing and then getting permanently stuck… or having a bad time progressing until you’re slogging through to Rank 8 of MG, with nothing exciting in-between, no progress felt and even worse drop-rates then before 1.0 in solo-play.
That’s a fairly bad deal.
If you go MG then never ever swap to CoF, you’ll have only a bad time. And you shouldn’t go CoF in the first place if you ever try to achieve any sort of top-tier item reliably. The time investment to acquire a singular 2 LP try is massive for the end-game items, for a 3 LP item it’s simply unrealistic. But… MG provides! Someone always has no use for one of the fantastic items personally, able to make a quick buck and outfit 2 of their character to full at once rather then having a single fantastic item.
The disparity there can be used rather then stifled like it is now simply.
Especially that though… it’s not a ‘pain’ to swap, it’s an outright disastrous mess. And you actively can’t since your account will be punished with favor loss… not your character.
It’s one of the most atrocious faction regulations in any game to date which I’ve seen.
It works in situations where the outcome is vastly different, like completely unique drops being presented… but doesn’t work when it’s about working towards the exact same base items.
Actually the other way around.
CoF was designed with a way to alleviate the pressure to switch over towards trade since an economy inherently makes item acquisition faster and more determined.
So EHG had a great idea with CoF, limiting that downside for roughly half the population of the game which doesn’t want to interact with an economy. Which is amazing!
Now they just need to provide a roughly similar experience in terms of progression for them as well… because currently it’s for several reasons very very flawed. Time of item acquisition, ease of item acquisition, specific drops like boss drops differ heavily as well as the varying speed of needed tab acquisition to use the respective systems properly are a few of those points… surely with a few extra ones.
I haven’t had much time yet to play 1.0, but so far what I’ve done with MG is to simply buy a few yellows when I need to assemble my build somewhat. Not even 4xT5 yellows. Just something that lets me get to empowered monos, because I like to get my build online as soon as possible. After that, I just play the game normally, even with the nerfed drops. I have only bought one unique so far, with 0LP, because it was important for the build.
Since I don’t really care about min-max or BiS gear, that works perfect for me. I get to have my build online fast, I get to still have a few drops that are an improvement and anything extra that drops is just a bonus.
Though I will admit that if it weren’t for the prophecy system (which I hate) I would probably go CoF instead.
I don’t think all affixes have the same odds. There was a thread about this recently. Like I said there, I would honestly be surprised if they did, since that’s not how gambling works. The better rewards have lower chances, so I’d expect that the exalted affix would have a lower chance.
My thought on the factions is join MG first to get the base-line gear to start playing your build, then switch to CoF so farming and drops feel worthwhile (even with the buggy rates of CoF, currently). While MG, I just felt like I needed gold, and what dropped from mobs didn’t matter anymore, nor Mono rewards.
I have millions of gold already, what do I care about selling a 100k item? I have no desire to play cycles, so I’m not going to start with nothing, ever.
Except that’s specifically what you do when you swap factions, you chose to. You aren’t made to swap factions by EHG.
Except that I don’t feel stuck in CoF at all. In fact, I can go grind in different game types or play alts that aren’t as geared, or … In MG, I’ld feel obligated to farm as efficiently as possible, because that’s the entire point of MG; get currency to exchange for gear.
And if your argument here is “CoF better to level, MG better at endgame gearing”. Yes, I was very well aware of that when I picked my faction. And how I weigh one against the other is why I decided on one faction, and someone else on another.
I also don’t see this clear cut-off you are talking about, nor this worse drop-rates. I personally find the drops in CoF to be slightly better than 0.9, especially if you are looking for LP on items that aren’t super-rare.
The original comment was actually about 2 non-MG factions. That said, I play enough alts that finding a rare 3LP gets me exited. I wouldn’t find it as fun if my first thought would be “I hope someone finds it worthwhile enough so I can buy the item I actually want”. That’s just inherently unfun to me. You do you, but that doesn’t mean I would feel stifled.
Well which one is it? Are you meant to swap or are the factions designed to cater to overall playstyles?
Because either we’re meant to swap on all our characters, and then EHG failed in their design to make Trade optional, or we’re not meant to, and the difficulty of swapping is a clear investment from the player rather than a min-maxing tool.
And if it’s the second one, and we’re determining how good factions are based on how useful rare drops with 3LP are … Considering a part of those aren’t build-defining (like Twisted Heart), I’ld say there is about a 50/50 chance I’ld be exited to try a new build with it. And considering CoF gives me twice the LP chance, that levels out to about what MG players would get from it.
I’m currently on character #3 and already thinking about the next 2, one of which will require 0 rare uniques anyway. Maybe a majority of MG players are still on their first char, grinding out a billion gold before instantly getting all the gear their alt needs, I don’t know, but I don’t feel stiffled to reach 300+ corruption on builds in CoF. And I enjoy getting them higher, which I probably wouldn’t if that grind is just “get X gold for +1 LP”.
Oh? That’s interesting I have to say, makes the whole thing a bit more complex surely.
Good to know, thanks for the info there!
Yes, then both factions are absolutely fine and working! If you go from the baseline then MG is stronger at the start, then CoF becomes better… but as soon as you go into the min-max area all of it breaks down completely, nothing works as it’s expected anymore. Feels… ‘odd’ to say it mildly. Not in the good direction sadly.
You would need to farm up a secondary set to get the bought items completely out of your build though. Because the second you switch to CoF you can’t use em anymore.
Makes the whole thing a major hassle and probably better to stay simply in the faction you’re in unless you’re doing some very specific and planned optimization.
‘Millions’ is worth nothing in Legacy. The people first putting up items had no clue - and mostly still have no clue - what their items actually are worth.
Currently I see tons of T7 exalteds for 500k+ for the more rare mods.
In the meanwhile I can find 4 LP uniques where only 1-2 exist for 10 mil.
That’s a very very odd disparity given that supply/demand there is quite the difference by design.
You can expect the uniques to rise to over 100 mil per piece before long for such high-end drops, the whole system just got utterly screwed by the lack of access for the higher valued items, causing the market to be completely stale while people undercut each other steadily before suddenly access is opened and the whole supply is just ‘gone’ in seconds it feels.
It’s a wonky system still with many issues. I play only Legacy as well… so the changes in the market interested me a lot with that setup they did. It’ll stabilize over time… but for cycles? That’s one utter and massive mess there sadly. The first people getting access have instantly the chance to outfit their character to the top for cheap while the people following after have no supply available anymore (since they could’ve sold it for a lot more) and then need to pay 10-50 times the amount.
A common market for a cyclic system starts out with providing slightly cheap items since people lack the funds and otherwise no liquidity would happen… then it rises as demand outpaces supply before the supply once again outpaces demand for a sort of natural equilibrium.
That’s interrupted in several ways in the LE economy though which makes it behave very… very weird.