The only thing I want to know (apart from is the expansion a paid one) is: Will it be crossplay between PC and PS5? I mean that in the sense as in “will my bought supporterpacks be available on PS5 when it releases there”???
I totally get that I need to rebuy the game on PS Store but it would be good to know if I still play from same account with all my cosmetics in it or not?!!
That would be the “nail in the coffin” if you ever release any paid add-ons. I kind of expected that I’d hear this one day — and I wasn’t wrong. There are plenty of ways to keep the game alive without adding extra costs (beyond buying the base game) instead of making paid DLCs.
Even skins for characters or abilities need to really have something special to make people want to buy them, not just a few LED lights. Look at how Path of Exile is being developed — nobody’s going to punish you for “borrowing” an idea or two, and it could honestly help a lot.
I had a great time playing; Season 2 is by far the best so far, and I’m hoping for more like it. But if I ever see a paid DLC, that’s where I’m out — I’ll quit the game because I don’t see the point in paying for something that might end up like Season 3, which I played for maybe 3–4 hours before it totally bored me.
I’m waiting, and I truly hope you manage to work through this problem and make the next expansion something that actually makes you think, “Just one more run… just one more boss.”
PS: Please, if you make another season, consider one thing—keep all the content the game offers on a single map (echo) instead of constantly teleporting to another one. It completely breaks the rhythm and gets really frustrating. (Season 2 – Catacombs, Season 3 – Claws or whatever it was called.)
This is great news! I’m excited to see the future of Last Epoch and the journeys we will get to embark on!
When will the new roadmap be published? Approximate dates?
Like what? Because they clearly said that Seasons 1, 2, and 3, have NOT been profitable. As far as I can tell, there are ZERO ways to keep the game alive without adding extra costs, and paid DLCs, according to Judd and EHG.
Full point value included in the supporter packs so you don’t buy ‘empty MTX’ and feel bad for doing so.
Proper quality of the MTX in the store.
Functionality of MTX instead of solely being reskins which you can barely see.
Options to actually show off to other players so your MTX has more meaning in a social standing aspect, which is a majority of MTX sales (‘Look at how cool I look!’ hence)
Proper themed sets rather then partial stuff everyhwere which doesn’t fit together.
There were loads of options, all ignored. But you’re likely right that by now there’s no other option before it gets too bad… but that’s because EHG screwed up for ages related to their monetization already.
They should just go with the MMO approach to expansions. Up the base price of the game and include the expansion, then sell the expansion separately at a reduced price for people who already own the game. Then future expansions you just keep the Game+Expansion bundle for new players and existing players can buy the new expansion to add to their account. Whenever there’s a new expansion, the previous expansions are added to the “base” game by default.
So you’d have:
Base Game: $$
Base Game + New Expansion: $$$
New Expansion: $
Throw in tiers (Deluxe, Collectors, etc) with exclusive cosmetics for each and you’ve got a solid expansion based model. Since they’re not charging a subscription and seasonal content is free, they can even keep selling MTX cosmetics and Supporter Packs.
I know they said they didn’t want to charge for future content, but honestly that, while a nice sentiment, was short sighted for a live-service model.
Yep, absolutely was.
And your suggestion is the most likely one happening. From a business perspective the most reasonable.
It’s just open if it’ll get them in hot waters with EU regulation.
And if they remunerate people buying the game before this was made known as the premise was a different one. I would argue to calm the waves substantial stuff has to be given as a ‘sorry’. I doubt heavily this will happen though, even only if it’s digital and hence worthless stuff which costs them exactly ‘0’.
Technically, it costs them the money to pay the artists and modelers. But I get your point. I don’t know EU Law, but I personally don’t think it’s ridiculous for pricing models to change over time. Sure the initial idea was “all future content will be free”, but expecting a company to go bankrupt or face legal consequences seems more ridiculous than them saying ahead of time (key point) that the model will be changing. If they just didn’t say anything, I’d absolutely see grounds for a lawsuit
I mean, I get why it happens.
But it’s actively not allowed, the question is how far the enforcement for the perpetual inlimited-time contract people have done with EHG and how the weighting between steam-page description and never rescinded kickstarter wording would be seen in court.
Actually ‘nah’ there.
I know what you mean, and it seems that way at first sight, but think about what it would cause:
‘Oh, we guaranteed it in a contract… but now we are at risk of going bancrupt… so your contract is void, pay up!’
You open doors for abuse of the system, hence why it’s not allowed.
Instead it mandates proper preparation, fail to do so and you fail your business.
Keeping a ‘promise’ up until release and beyond and then rescinding it is a very very very critical situation legally, it’s not 100% clear-cut but it has a high chance that something could come from it.
i wish for actuall quality skins and not paywalling content.
Skins are the poorest from all arpg’s. Even diablo 2 have better armour designs and it’s very… old game… please employe someone who know body proportions and correct aesthetic. Skins looks like fortnite mobile… all your earning income is from skins.
Yeah essentially what I was trying to say … poorly when I said the expansion would be $20 and existing players pay $10 it was inline with your thinking the game + expansion would be $20 and just the expansion would be $10. (example pricing not meant to be what I think thegame + expansion would cost) I just worded it poorly.
I 1000% agree with what you said though. Thanks for the reply.
I admire the effort, and thank you for bringing a new ARPG to the market that’s good in spite of all the challenges. Here is some condensed feedback:
- Monetization
- To sell cosmetics, they need to be straight up WOW factor. Like, “holyfuck that is cool” wow. If your own team, or your testers, aren’t saying WOW, then they won’t sell. Bundle skill VFX with suitable cosmetics, create extravagant effects, do whatever it takes even if it flashbangs the party’s eyes 24/7, but it must look cool - forget working on filler cosmetics, do 10x godly VFX-imbued bloodgodmaxxing stuff, and your whales will eat them up.
- Most of the tryhard ARPG fans are adults with the money, so it’s not a pricing issue, its a quality-of-cosmetics issue you have.
- Seasons and attractiveness
- Frankly speaking, your release cadence for skills and uniques just isn’t going to keep up with what players want. Every single patch, me and my group of friends wait for a new unique that buffs the runemaster’s painstakingly created 39 invocations that go unused, and it never comes. You’re ARPG players, you know how people want to play the game - it’s all about viable endgame builds. It feels strange to see so many viable skills in the game but with minimal seasonal meta / variance - you really don’t need more classes, you need more VARIANCE. Make the old skills strong and people will come, they only make 1 to 3 new classes every season and they definitely just don’t see the value in playing non-meta stuff.
- Why does Live Service work?
- Gacha games aren’t doing well purely because of predatory MTX anymore. They managed to take the absurd amounts of money and use it to create an actually viable long-term release cycle. Content in gacha games currently comes in a shorter-than-1month cycle. I don’t know if you guys realise how crazy that is - even if you aren’t a whale, when there’s just THAT much content to do and new things to try, everybody continues to play your game.
- Unfortunately for you guys, you chose live service despite not having the monetization OR content to support it. That’s forever going to burn a hole in your pocket if you don’t fix it, so you might want to get started solving it before you finish spending the krafton money…
1 Like
Charge for the expansion straight up, just like any other game does. Free seasonal content is more than enough, a paid expansion just makes sense especially with the amount of work it’ll take to differentiate it from the seasonal stuff. I guarantee most players will be happy to pay $15-$30 for a proper expansion.
No sane person will be fine for paying for an expansion unless the core game is properly finished. Which it isn’t.
It’s utter insanity to act otherwise, doing so opens the door for other publishers to screw over people and deliver half-assed and half-finished products before moving on to letting people pay even more.
This is a detrimental practice for everyone in the sector. Less quality, less stability and extremely harsh competitive environment making it hard for decent developers to get established and provide good products.
Don’t be a part of that, demand proper fulfillment of the base product before allowing them to even make a cent beyond with added content.
1 Like
Shortly…
Any word on this updated Roadmap?
Apart from PoE, PoE doesn’t charge for expansions. MMOs do, offline/single player games do so it’s a bit of a mix, even in the seasonal arpg genre (ie, D4/PoE).
Soon ™.
Fair point - when I think “expansion” I do think WoW/FFXIV type expansions that are paid, but even Diablo’s official expansions are paid. I didn’t know about PoE but they also probably have bigger market share than LE 
Yeah, that’s why it’s mixed in the seasonal arpg genre, Diablo does charge for expansions & PoE doesn’t (no idea about TL:L, whether it even has what could be called expansions).
I appreciate and very much doubt this “transparency” you’re being thanked for honestly. Allow me to return the favor nonetheless:
Last time I posted I swore I was done with supporter packs. I broke my word there mostly as I’m an adult, have the disposable income, quit an extremely expensive horrible habit, and justified buying it “just because”.
That’s not a norm for me. I’m sure for many it is, but with you guys I have spent more time actively playing this game than my total time afk and playing in your competitors’ games combined.
You made plenty selling out, and now you’ve gone back on your word again. When I read between the lines it seems to me you prioritized growth (PS5 port) and kept more resources than necessary, because all things considered it sounds to me like you grossly have mismanaged S2 especially. I don’t get how you weren’t profitable at all.
So now I’m done. I haven’t touched the game in weeks and am likely back to not gaming again in general. I can add you guys to the list of studios I feel have really made me disgusted with this industry vs. what it started out as in my youth. Thanks again for the entertainment, but I’m too principled to allow myself to willingly be an idiot and throw you money “just because” a second time.