I have played LE for quite a while(200+ hour) to form this opinion. LE, compared to other ARPG, lacks the sense of anticipation for good items which is critical to ARPG. I attribute it to the mechanic that all items are identified on drops. You know within few second on drop if an item is good or not by hovering, so it provide gratification straight away instead of anticipation. This effect is excarbated by good loot filter that reduces amount of bad drops.
I know item identification is a controversial topic and not suggesting that all items to be unidentified on drop. The default-identified items and loot filter are an amazing features of LE, but as the saying goes, too much of a good things are bad things. So, maybe we can limit identify mechanic to only uniques(or legendary) and perhaps only identifiable in base camp? That way, we delay the sense of gratification by few mins and grow the sense of anticipation. Most famous example would be in PoE and leather belt unique dropping for a chance for headhunter.
Atm, this effect would be small since the number of unique base duplicates are small in LE but as the number grows, the effect will be more pronounced.
It is different. On hover which can be in 1-2 second, you instantly knows whatâs the unique/set drop. I still count that as instant gratification.
In PoE, yes, we can pick it up and use scroll to identify it directly so it can be just a few more second delay. Psychologically, I would argue it is still different as:
The anticipation come in 2 stages: unique item base drop(yes no.1, unknown item=anticipation)->consciously and having a direct action ingame to pick up and identify (yes no.2, effort/action+result).
All the items need to be identified so they won in quantity.
My suggestion is since we donât want all item drops to be unidentified and so, lose out on quantity, we lengthen the time to grow the anticipation bigger.
Pretty easy to explain lore-wise too. Something like all uniques are time-lost antiques or masterpieces that need scholars to identify.
Note: win-loss above is just expression and not implying facts that one is better over another.
Iâve never understood the appeal of item identification mechanics in games. Having experienced games with and without it, I simply cannot see that the extra step in the item system adds anything of substantive value.
Clearly others disagree. For me it simply seems like having to pay a toll to use the item after I engaged in a battle to the death with the previous owner.
Because it is not supposed to be appealing. It is an obstacle towards the gratification. An annoyance, inconvenience, effort etc.
I am not a game designer, but I dabble in psychology a bit. Lets take the mechanic known to be most predatory psycologically as example, gacha/lootbox mechanic. In games like Genshin and FIFA, purchaser of lootboxes has either or all 3 annoyances:
You can only buy a limited set amount in 1 go
Long animation of opening pack/lootbox
Results shows up one by one
As a lucrative mechanic, you would think that the publisher/dev would want players to open more packs/boxes quickly, but they still introduce annoyance/time delay before the gratification. Why? Because the gratifications are amplified by the annoyance. It is the critical strike multiplier.
Now in LE, I donât want the game design to be predatory, but in moderation it is still a good game design.
Extra note: Tbh, I would like of exalted to be also similarly gated, but it might be too much for some. Either by hiding the exalted affixes. Or show all affixes but donât show which one is the exalted one until identified.
I wonât pretend to have even a sophomoric understanding of psychology. Everything youâre saying here may be spot on or the ramblings of a lunatic. Either way Iâm not at all qualified to tell the difference.
That said, I stand by my earlier observation that this type of mechanic has, in my own experience and opinion,
never added anything of value to a game. It has never increased (nor decreased, to be fair) my immersion or longevity with a game. If a mechanic that adds annoyance by design (if I understand your reply correctly) doesnât increase engagement then isnât it just annoyance for the sake of annoyance?
Again, Iâm not at all versed in psychology, but annoyance for its own sake doesnât seem like good design to me. Perhaps my view is too narrowed due to my lack of knowledge, but I canât wrap my head around the why.
It increases engagement by increasing the sense of satisfaction. It does assumes that the minor annoyance will amplify the satisfaction so it is not just annoyance for the sake of annoyance.
Also, having uniques unidentified/some annoyance mechanic is just a suggestion of mine and not the main topic. Lack of sense of anticipation is my root issue. If EHG can come out with other creative solution to increase the sense of anticipation, Iâm all for it too.
I donât understand what youâre saying. POE is exactly the same. You hover over the unique leather belt, and you can already tell whether it is a headhunter or wurm molt.
Strange. I vaguely recall uniques in PoE still need to be identified.
Anyway, I still frequent the PoE reddit since I actually like the game before burning out so I am quite up to date with their current issue. I think PoEâs problem with anticipation is not a problem of lack. Their problem is more of the amount of annoyance(trash drop, very low chance etc) is too much that it is now detriments the anticipation. PoE seem to expect player to play as if it is fulltime job. Stretch the hope too far and it turns to frustration. Thus, moderation is key.
EDIT: and I actually have opinion that PoE has a great mechanic to generate anticipation. It is one of the reasons why a lot of people are loyal and addicted to it (as long as they have the required time and patience to grind out the annoyance)
I concur with that problem with LEâs unique. Power of unique aside, the chase item mechanic itself is good for anticipation and is a major mechanic. It is however too sparse apart time-wise. Each boss encounter requires 1hr+ mono-ing. Furthermore, sometimes player donât have enough time to meet a boss in a play due to short of free time. I think a different minor mechanic to generate anticipation in between those hours will still be good for the game.
Funnily enough, weâve had discussions here where some have wanted much larger (longer) maps and such.
Besides, you like to talk about psychology:
â This certain approach, which has entered the digital game industry since about the turn of the millennium to design a game in such a way that a player receives as regularly as possible and in the shortest possible intervals a success confirmation of whatever kind [this is like a dog treat to train / stimulate the dog] has among other things contributed significantly to the fact that many players can hardly do without it.
â In addition, the attention spans of the average player have certainly decreased by HOURS⌠therefore one programs completely after the scheme âproblem->reaction->solutionâ much also only in such a way that the maximum attention span to be demanded of the players does not exceed these nowadays often encountered 15 to 45 minutes if possible. Basically from one quick treat to the next.
Iâm disgusted by it all by now.
PS:
Wanted to see how the translator copes with longer sentences.
Double funnily, I have the same opinion on maps. So, I also want more ways/mechanic that generate anticipation (minor or major), then gratification
I have the same sentiment as you on how the psychology of it can be abused. Unfortunately, that is just how human works with regards to entertainment and dopamine, not just in gaming. However, LE has in my opinion a lack of it and can do with a bit more, to be a better entertainment avenue. Abuse it and it become addiction, in moderation and it become motivation.
I agree. I never realized how much I hated identifying items in a ARPGs until LE gave me one where I donât have to do it.
Filling up my inventory with items and making repeated stops or trips back to town to identify a bunch of items that are probably junk is not fun. It doesnât add any âanticipation of gratificationâ. It doesnât âincrease my engagement and sense of satisfactionâ. It just adds totally arbitrary time and frustration to the gameplay loop. Iâd rather be able to filter out the majority of garbage items, and know in 1-2 seconds of hovering if I want the item for the rest, than have my inventory filled with shit.
Itâs not. He read an article written by laypeople for laypeople and then tried to map lootboxes onto loot drops when they are absolutely not the same.
I only reuse my older comment because I have to diasgree with you.
I simly hate identification mechanic especialy in PoE when you have to indentify every single item. This is reason why I ignore rare drop in PoE even with filter most of time. D3 removed identification process from rares (leg/set have tome for one click for whole inventory) and it was good move (forgot that they destroyed rares later). GD have identified items and gameplay is smother. Identification is usable only if you drop few items per hour and this is not even close to drop quantity in LE or any other ARPG.
I really donât like to have to identify items in a HnS. Feeling of reward after the small frustration? I understand that in theory but I donât feel it. For me, itâs just something that breaks the fluidity of my game.
I donât want that in Last Epoch, I hope there wonât be!
Or at least, as always, as an option that can be desactivated.
Hey mate, I put the article as goodwill for people to read so donât nilly-willy extend it to my knowledge. My background is I took psychology as my electives in university and some reading on related topics throughout my years. Can I be wrong? Sure can, after all I am an amateur in the topic. EHG can hire/consult someone more qualified in both game design and psychology like what some devs do. You are however not doing the community a favor by constantly attacking peopleâs opinion and feedbacks that you donât agree with.
I feel that people are not reading all the comments or just do knee-jerk reaction (or I am just bad at writing). This is exactly what I am suggestingâŚ
Yeah, I read your psychology posts that don´t fit on me. You quoted only what fits to your suggestion but it wasn´t meant that way if you leave it with rest of text.
This just hasnât been my experience, personally. YMMV
This is where we differ, clearly. If you tell me that you suggest such a mechanic for the sake of a gold sink, I can get my head around that. I donât think itâs particularly effective, but I can understand it. Given that I donât experience this anticipation you speak of as anything worthwhile, I fail to relate. Again, in my view itâs nothing more than a tax levied against me if I want even the opportunity to choose whether or not to use an item.
On this particular suggestion, weâll just have to amicably disagree.
Given our obvious difference of opinion, I am curious what other methods you might be able to envision to drive this anticipation, outside of item identification.
psychology is a strange world indeed.