Sorry if I misunderstand but there are definitely language barrier here. We can agree to disagree on the topic. After all it is a controversial topic. Just one point on your comment that “identification is usable only if you drop few items per hour”. In my suggestion to only identify uniques/legen, it fits the use case then as we will normally only get 0-2 uniques per map on average in mono.
Sure
I don’t have other ideas. Not a creative person myself . If I have one, I will surely update the thread.
It is possible because english isn´t my native language. Identification of unigues could be usable with few drops now but we don´t know what will be other endgame systems and what will be caused by power creap in future. It was good in D3 after change but annoying when new torment levels were introduced and you have full inventory in a while.
I don’t see LE roadmap having that risk. But it make sense. I dropped D3 very very early so I have no clue what’s torment level, but power creep can certainly be an issue. But, that is more a problem with solving power creep than solving inventory clutter. The risk is definitely still there as none can accurately predict the future.
Anyway, I hope what the devs take away from this topic is mainly the anticipation part.
@Thaelyn more RNG (non-deterministic) crafting is another anticipation generation , but that is another huge can of worms so lets not go there until new patch is out
You don’t need to identify an HH in POE, you know it’s an HH by hovering over it… The same way you do in LE.
Scroll of wisdoms are only used by necessity, most of time there’s absolutly 0 hype/stress coming from it, and when you farm stuff like WE, it quickly gets old, like the second WE you drop you allready do not really even feel the thrill. (Thrill that i never felt in POE, to me scrolls of wisdom are 100% useless and outdated mechanic)
I don’t really think adding item identification will help. The reason I don’t get excited about drops in LE is because I know 1) drops are mostly trash and 2) I’m expected to craft my gear.
I also tend to go solo, so I have very strict filters. The drops I get are rare enough to add that sense of anticipation.
You also talk about gacha systems down below, but most gacha systems do let you skip and mass spin, so I’m not sure the point you were making about inconvenience is necessarily true.
People have different opinions on identification that are not new points that have not been discussed in thread before so I am not replying further on those. This quote though is not factually correct for most popular lootboxes or pack. Keywords I use are either or all 3 inconvenience. Citing popular examples:
Genshin: at most 10 pull at a time and result shows up one by one
Dota: 1 cosmetic pull at a time
Fifa: 12-30 pull a pack
Overwatch/hearthstone: 5 pull per packs. Edit: Hearthstone even let you click cards one by one for reveal
FGO: max 10 summon a try
Also, I would consider needing (multiple) clicks to skip animation per packs a minor inconvenience.
I will put the two different experiences from FF14, LE, and PoE. We all need to understand that many LE devs play PoE and other games. They have posted in a text (somewhere) that they have made the decision based on their own looting experiences.
FF14
Not a single drop. All loot comes from chests that are specific rolled and quest rewards where the strict inventory system is bland. All you care about there is item level and does it work for the job, period.
PoE Experience
For last season in PoE I picked up a total of 12 rares that needed wisdom scrolls prior act 3. Out of those 12 items, I knew what they were. All the items were based on how I set up my filter that it was the right sockets and links and I care less about the stats. MY end of acts weapon was a level 2 crafted dagger from a vendor recipe. I did not wear a chest until the right combo dropped in act 3. I used 2 bindings on random items for boots and gloves, then those were more painful since I had to use chromes on them.
LE
I have more items in my stash in 6 months of playing here compared to the 1 . x era of PoE. There is a purpose for knowing what the item is and that has multiple outcomes, try to craft on it, feed the item to the forge for a chance to get that affix you are looking for, or just collect some gold (least optimal reason). The reason the stash is so full is, I am thinking of new builds and then I do one of the first two options then test the results in the game. I find that far more rewarding than anything that PoE can ever offer me due to one item, Scroll of Wisdom.
I used the drop downs to keep this post from being a wall of text.
I agree with that decision and it has its own benefit. Since I’ve been overtly negative in the title and the thread, let’s go through where I do actually feel like a good implementation of anticipation in LE:
Special node in mono (exalted, unique)
Targeted chase items
Crafting to smaller extent
Why I don’t feel anticipation or a good one on LE’s common drops: no tease, minimal bad loot to contrast, minimal flair and no possible engagement action. They are not necessarily bad in the absolute and offer their own pros as seen by a lot of contrasting opinion in the thread.
But,
An ARPG in my opinion would need a more diverse anticipation mechanic and designs spread out through the hours playing, to be hugely succesful. Identification of unique that just show the itembase ala D2 is my amateurish suggestion to add that. Other solutions are welcome.
Anticipation should come from waiting for items to drop not from the chore of having to identify them. Games that have identification mechanics barely increase the sense of anticipation because you know before hand that most items you identify are going to be trash or you can guess what the item is based on the base etc before hand.
Identifying items is boring. I’m glad EHG have streamlined some of the more archaic mechanics that have been common in arpgs. All they do is whittle away the sense of enjoyment I get from playing by consuming my time doing things that aren’t fun.
Surely there are ways to increase anticipation that are more fun and less chore like?
Let’s reduce everything down to the simplest terms possible.
Killing a monster = “a player action”
Using an Identify scroll on loot = “a player action”
So, right now in LE, it works like this: A Player Action can randomly generate desired loot.
To help players, EHG even added a Loot Filter which has the capability of filtering out undesired loot, leaving only potentially desired loot for you to interact with.
How would any sort of “identify” mechanic affect the game? It would be:
A Player Action can randomly generate desired loot.
Not because it generates it, but because it turns it from unknown (unidentified) to known (identified).
So the entire cycle becomes:
A Player Action generates A Player Action which can randomly generate desired loot.
All you did was add something called “Tedium”. Tedium is objectively bad (psychology not withstanding). There is no valid reason to add Tedium to LE.
I sure hope so. There is another long thread on affixes and items being boring in LE especially in midgame, and in my opinion, LE’s amazing loot filter and identification plays a part in that perception.
I may be misunderstanding your point, but this is oversimplification.
My suggestion is to be able to identify the uniques in base camp from an npc, nothing to do with scrolls
You did not consider time delay to gratification
A player action even if perceived as useless can subconsciously increase engagement and anticipation. Many gacha has a similar seemingly tedious, layered “player actions” in their design
One example:
Hearthstone: you put the card pack purchased on altar to “unpack” 5 cards in closed position, then players have to click on the card one by one to open them.
You might think this all is simply eyecandy, all flash no substance, or without actual purpose and we can agree to disagree on this but I will hazard a hypothesis that these mechanic have a psychological purpose (which is to increase player engagement and thus anticipation before the reveal). The theory might not apply directly to ARPG but it does mean that a (multiple) player action can matter in generating engagement/anticipation whether it is tedious or not.
Now, EHG might never put unidentified mechanic in the game which is fine and all, but to make LE better, please do think about “player engagement” and anticipation
I also agree that it is a tedium. Not opposing you there. The difference in our opinion is that I don’t agree with the stance of eliminating “all” forms of tedium. To value something good, you need to still have something bad.
Whoa… I have been lurking in this thread for a while… sort of on the fence leaning toward disagreeing but this comment is most definitely tipped the scales for me…
To value something you most certainly do NOT have to have something bad… If you work for something, you appreciate the result but the work is not “BAD”… Perhaps you have simplified “Effort” to equate to “Bad” but thats, imho, very wrong…
I consider the farming part of any Arpg more than enough effort to generate excitement for drops…
Adding an additional irrelevant step like you are proposing would most definitely not improve anticipation for me… it is a pure hinderance and I would understand it to be… The issue for me is also one of understanding that you are being played… sure a real novice at computer games could have the wool pulled over their eyes but anyone who has played games for any length of time understands this mechanism - even without someone explaining it to them… and once you understand, its just plain irritating… and provides zero anticipation or increased gratification once you have the item identified.
This article is essentially a very basic , and over-simplified, course on how pay for convenience has integrated itself into free-to-play games as a driver for revenue. Something that LE has already stated (numerous times) they are completely against and will not implement. Typically this sense of “anticipation” is a feedback mechanic towards restriction and thus opportunity to bypass those restrictions in the exchange of in-game currency, which can be plentifully accrued via real life currency. Of course, that can always change, but I don’t anticipate soon, if ever.
I’m not seeing much here outside of personal opinion. I’ll let this play out, but I honestly don’t see anything that benefits the player base as a whole with implementing such a system. Just my two cents.
I’ve laughed, sorry, at some point every topic become theatrical and this one didn’t escape to the rule.
Ok so let’s make it easy, please EHG give us one way to define a very special sound effect (which is the real reason why a few people -using a third party item filter cause GGG too lazy to offer one in game- still get hyped and excited when droping something rare in POE and not these stupid, useless and outdated tedious scrolls of boredom) for when one high end chase item drops on the floor or one very specific rare/exalted, everybody’s happy, let’s move on.
Ok, I am not a master of expression and english is not my first language so, Paraphrasing: bad things make you perceive/appreciate good things better. That statement is directed towards the zaodon’s statement of eliminating all tedium anyway rather than specifically about identification. At certain point in mid-end game, loot filters would have hidden majority of the bad loots. It minimizes the illusion of control and near-misses. Identify is trying to add back a bit of illusion of control. I think most people consider having to identify as “bad” given the backlash I have in suggesting to all-identify just <5% of total drops with 2 clicks via NPC.
Also, I personally do not see the effort to farm/kill enemies as “bad”. It is an enjoyable gameplay aspect and would put that experience as “good”.
Laugh at it if you will. Relative satisfaction is a common theme in many literatures, past and present.
Ofcourse, I am not gonna link a paper that no one is gonna read past the first two pages. Research in depth on a niche like ARPG loot is very, very few, if a credible one even exists, but lootboxes has been garnering a lot of attentions lately.
Every entertainment in the world have this elements of “attraction”. I am suggesting EHG to keep an open mind and eye on other games/genre (if they have not done so) and perhaps be inspired by some of the elements (which in moderation is not a bad thing). Let’s face it, while the core idea of LE is solid, it does feel like it does not pay attention/priority (yet?) to player engagement/experience. Example: Hitting sound, enemy death animation, loot sound, gold sound, less vibrant color of loot drop and small font, vague highlight of rarity in inventory, item editor ui in crafting and so on. All these are element of “attraction” that ftp gacha games (and PoE) are very good at. Is clicking through cards for reveal ala hearthstone part of the “attraction”? I do think so, others don’t. EHG will be the judge, hopefully with a qualified advisor.
Also, tbh, some posters has good points that I am not well-equipped to answer such as what if you know the mechanicism behind it. Will it still generate anticipation? I myself am oldschool and not against that minor frustration and would answer yes, but it is anecdotal and might not apply to majority.
What is your definition of powerful gear? In Diablo, +x to skillwith resist is considered powerful, % cast speed is desirable. In LE, +x skills with +%dmg hybrid in 1 affix drops seems to be considered as boring. Before you say Diablo mechanics are antiquated and obselete, D2R recently have server issue because of concurrent traffic in the hundred thousands to million. Not bad for remaster of 20 years old game in the midst of all of Blizzard’s failings
. If I have one, I will surely update the thread.