One chance at dungeon bosses is awful

As difficult as it already is to get keys, having only one chance to fight a boss is going to absolutely kill off your end game userbase. No matter how difficult a boss in POE is, you get 6 portals to keep trying and gives you time to learn. Only one side content (the lab) has such a mechanic so its somewhat tolerable but its no surprise its one of the most hated side contents in the game. Considering how rare certain keys are newer players are going to die to 1 shots multiple times before having any idea whats even going on. You are literally creating multiple side content with the same vibe as POE Lab that a majority of players despise.

This feels awful and completely kills any hype of fighting a boss. Iā€™ve seen many posts over the years about this issue and the fact its still a problem tells me they wonā€™t change this anytime soon. Endgame is what keeps people around and having most of your endgame content with ā€˜POE Labā€™ vibes isnā€™t going to end well for you.

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I donā€™t know if itā€™s a bug, but since 0.9 I have multiple tries for dungeon bosses.
At least for the Lightless Arbor boss on T4.
Canā€™t say for the other dungeon bosses because I havenā€™t died on them since 0.9 but if itā€™s indeed a bug I could of course die on purpose to see if they have the same behaviour.
Honestly I think itā€™s better to get more than one tryā€¦ at least the Titan is (imo) way deadlier than Julra or Cremorus, but those might be harder for other players.

The keys drop so frequently that youā€™ll never run as many dungeons as you have keys that drop. Eventually, youā€™ll start selling keys (especially the Arena + Arena Memory keys) for gold. If youā€™re only clearing echos for the primary target and bailing, you are literally leaving keys on the ground.

The cost is a couple of minutes at most to get back to a boss and try again. Iā€™d suggest that if you do die, go watch a video to better understand the mechanics. All of the Dungeon bosses are mechanical: rather than needing a high investment in explicit damage or tank builds, they require player awareness.

I love it ā€“ itā€™s incredibly generous compared to experiences across several other games.

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Watching a video because you died shouldnā€™t be the standard.

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How is being teleported immediately back into Julras explosion due to desync server issues because you pressed a button after teleporting to immediately die - generous?

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Havenā€™t had that experience myself and several of my friends that play the game havenā€™t experienced desync issues as of yet. Note: Iā€™m not dismissing that desync doesnā€™t exist in this beta+pre-release game. In the several times Iā€™ve killed that dungeon boss (which has been across multiple tiers now) anytime Iā€™ve died was because either I didnā€™t understand the mechanics fully (early on higher-tier attempts) or I simply did not perform the fight mechanics properly.

This may be a network layer issue for you and thereā€™s several things you can do to aid in diagnosing that. This could also be a bug you are triggering. If itā€™s the latter, then that should be reported properly into the bug report forum so it can be fixed.

Either way, what youā€™re describing doesnā€™t describe like an encounter issue, especially if thereā€™s an underlying problem with the transport layer.

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The suggestion is to understand the fight mechanics. This is often by way of a video. Some videos like to highlight specific tricks when responding to boss mechanics. If thatā€™s not your cup of tea, thereā€™s several option for digging in and understanding the mechanics including the wiki, lastepochtools, forums, the gameā€™s official discord, and so on.

The point is there are constructive options the donā€™t involve running in and dying over and over without progress. Understanding how a boss fight works is going to reduce these frustrations over mindlessly attempting to brute force a boss fight.

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Iā€™ve been playing for past 4-5 days and only find about 1 Temporal Sanctum key/day on average I find.
Also yes, the desync thing is annoying as well.

Iā€™m fine with ARGP bosses having mechanics like MMO, more or less, but as OP said, ONE try per key is very punishing.
Iā€™m sorry I just donā€™t believe you when you say keys drop often. I see the arena keys a lot and Soulfire Ones somewhat decent amount but Temporal Sanctum keys are much rarer I find.

Sounds like you hit a bad spot of rng or not enough grinding. Are you fully clearing monos or just bailing when the main objective is met? 60% of the time, if I keep clearing after the main objective is met, Iā€™m finding keys. If youā€™re not doing this: give it a try. Also consider running more monos that arenā€™t -just- set/unique/glyph/key rewards. Itā€™s just rng, but try running those less-exciting reward monos and you may be surprised at how many keys drop.

I just cleared out my keys 2 days ago and already my tab is needing a clear out again.

Iā€™m doing a mix of both, give or take, same with amount of different reward echos I choose.
I have about 15 Soulfire keys and 4 Temporal Sanctum keys in my stash, and itā€™s the TS keys Iā€™m more interested in.
Ya, it just feels bad with the drop rate on top of only getting 1 try.

That doesnā€™t sound great. Iā€™m going to set up a shared doc and start logging my runs with more detail, to better identify trends (including keys dropped) with a concrete data set:

  • Timeline
  • Mono Area Description
  • Reward type
  • Area Level
  • Corruption Level
  • IIR (increased item rarity %)
  • IEx (increased experience %)
  • Stability at time of objective completion
  • Num of keys dropped?
  • If key(s) dropped, type(s)?
  • Key dropped before or after objective complete?
  • Stability when key dropped
  • Mono Reward Notes
  • Mono Reward Chest Notes
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It doesnt matter really, my whole response to your comment was pretty much disbelief, this game is vastly less generous than Path of Exile ā€˜hardest aRPG ever madeā€™ when it comes to bosses where you get 6 portals and PoEs bosses get ridiculous in their final phases

The thing is LE uses the same bs PoE does but gives you less attempts, ive been one tapped by Julra a few times with 5k ward, 100% crit avoid, her wave/beam ticks can immediately one shot you, you can fill a room with degen puddles that do severe damage

Also just to point out if you are farming anything less than a T4 boss it doesnt matter as the other tiers are easy/reasonable, its just T4 which is overtuned

No its for pretty much everyone on online

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I wasnā€™t trying to argue with your opinion as much as I was trying to provide the OP with constructive suggestions on how to be more successful at dungeon boss fights, that they are clearly struggling with (hence the obvious cry for help here). I absolutely loathe the constant stream of conversions that devolve into ā€œwhich arpg is the one arpg to rule them all!11ā€ and ā€œbut PoE does thisā€¦ā€. That is such a narrow mindset that I donā€™t want to be a party to.

With that said, I will take this one response to explain what I mean by ā€œmore forgivingā€ within the context of Last Epoch compared to Path of Exile (as the OP brought up their desire for Path of Exile-like functions).

  • Most content in Path of Exile is so cluttered that it is literally impossible to -see- mechanics with many skills and other activity on the screen. Thus far, Last Epoch has (arguably) been vastly easier to see who is doing what across the board for content. EHG continues to take feedback where this isnā€™t the case, and has been actively working to improve. Especially when it comes to the dungeon bosses and their telegraphed abilities. The current LE boss encounters are reminiscent of some of the best World of Warcraft boss fights have offered in prior years in terms of design (I havenā€™t played WoW in a several expansions, but I still have fond memories).
  • PoE boss mechanics are often requiring <250ms response time action, made even lower with certain modifiers, where Last Epoch is incredibly generous with often multiple-second telegraphs for the player to respond to upcoming boss actions. Yes, these do get tighter on the highest dungeon tiers (currently). The EHG game director has stated that game play tuning, character skill balance, as well as post-story content still has a long way to go and they will be iterating further.
  • The lowest tiers of current dungeon bosses often allow you to survive (even with entry-level gearing) boss actions that become one-shot hits in the T4 version of those bosses. This is by and large not the case with PoE bosses, aside from over-geared charactersā€¦
  • ā€¦Most boss content in PoE is trivialized (encouraged by the gameā€™s design) by having the player over-gear the content and not by way of responding correctly to and understanding the mechanics. Last Epoch boss fights (at this point and time) do allow over-gearing of course but by and large, itā€™s a matter of understanding the basic mechanics.

The T4 Julra boss fight beams ARE a one-shot ability. They arenā€™t supposed to be tanked (even if some classes, with the right gear or skills, currently can). If you are dying to those itā€™s because youā€™re not supposed to be hit by them. Much like Mavenā€™s moving beams toward the final phase, you want to avoid those by moving through the gaps.

Likewise, if you are filling the floor with puddles, you may not be responding to the mechanics as efficiently as you could be. To help, once you see the bomb going off, you need to swap times (this is very tight on T4). The boss will eventually change to the time you are currently in. Once you swap times, you need to run to the outer edge of the area (always be moving), get the debuff, drop the pool on the edge, then jump back to the boss without getting hit by the cone or floor-aoe ability. While the beams are going your biggest concern should be to not get hit by those beams in T4. Go through the gaps, or you will die, full stop.

Yes, T4 is tough. Itā€™s supposed to be. You will (generally) die to the one-shot mechanics in T4 if you miss where to stand. You can practice these basic mechanics however, in Tier 1/2 without needing a ton of damage or tank gear. The biggest difference, to me, is the speed the abilities are cast and the obvious one-shot levels of damage. I would suggest having at least some extra movement speed (at -least- 25-30ms+) for the T4 version of the fight.

Itā€™s a sweeping generalization to say ā€œeveryone on onlineā€ is having a bad network time. Several people that I know that play the game off and on havenā€™t had any issues related to network hiccups. EHG is aware that people are still experiencing network related or network-layer symptomatic issues. EHG has asked for continued specific feedback about what/when/where. Iā€™m sorry if that is affecting you, but itā€™s just not true that ā€œpretty much everyoneā€ is affected. Similarly, I have a pal that constantly complains about his final door in dungeons bugging out where myself and several of our friends never have issues with dungeon doors bugging out. His outlet right now is to report the bug, with as much data as possible, and wait for EHG to address it.

I hope you have better luck with key drops. I also hope EHG continues itā€™s journey as itā€™s own organically distinct game and continues to add interesting dungeon encounters.

glhf

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If one doesnā€™t want to watch a video to understand boss mechanics, why would you go to any of those other resources? Some people just like to work things out by themselves and they arenā€™t really catered for as tjings stand.

Its been suggested before that the key is used to access the reward after the boss rather than the Dungeon itself. Though that would probably mean people farm the Dungeon for exalts rather than do the boss and get the reward.

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They are supposed on one shot you. That all just sounds like you not doing the mechanics properly. Sorry.

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Having to use external options because you died shouldnā€™t be standard.

Id rather they just did practice mode tbh, since it sounds extremely degen to wait for a good door and then with no intent to get the dungeon finish just farm out exalted.

A practice mode that lets you revive inside, choose any difficulty and still lets you traverse the dungeon would be ideal. Hell then you could even speed run them if you wanted.

Aslong as keys dont become ā€œonly used once in a blue moon when you need the dungeon end reward.ā€

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You donā€™t HAVE to. You could still just do it like everyone else did when the bosses were new and there was no information on them. Go in and learn the fight over multiple tries. Eventually you will get good enough at it to have the boss on farm status.

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Thats literally what the entire point of this thread is about, that only having one chance makes that hard.

Also I know you donā€™t have to, im replying to someone saying that if you die you should.

Not sure what the point of going through the dungeon in a practise mode would be, but being able to select difficulty and revive for another go would be good.