One chance at dungeon bosses is awful

I agree, specially for soulfire since part of the mechanic is to grind the souls, which can take a while just to be one shot by the boss :slight_smile:

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T1 already is kind of a practice mode. You propably go in overleveled and don’t really get oneshot by bosses.

I’d really love to have additional tries on dungeon bosses. It doesn’t have to be 6. Think Wolcen has 3 tries. Sounds like a reasonable number. Maybe gate each additional try by making it cost a dungeon key.


Is it if you can just ignore most of the mechanics that will kill you later on?

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Don’t get me started on POE labs. I freaking hate them. Dungeons here I don’t mind trying multiple times as each try should help me learn the mechanics. The more one does it the more one should be able to improve.

hahaha i like them

Depends on your gear and how much you overleveled. If you’re going in with a level 50 toon in t1 Sanctum it may not be that kind of practise mode.

But having the mechanics not straight out kill you instantly is a good practice.

I think “ignoring” the mechanics never is a good idea. Every sane player gets it that when a boss telegraphs an attack you should propably move out of the blast radius. But as a new player you don’t know the patterns, the cast speed and stuff. So you might get hit by the edges of an effect. If you then get out barely alive, you already learned something.

But higher Tiers become more unforgiving. T4 Bosses require you to play flawlessly.

A kind of player skill check is ok. But not everytime its just about learning and becoming better. Some people come to the limits of their capabilities. And at that point they dont have any chance to ever clear a t4 Dungeon even if they’d try for weeks. Maybe at some point these people might learn to olay flawlessly. But propably they quit trying before they reach that point.

Chances in Dungeons are that every new mechanic (Dungeon and Boss mechanic) will kill you when you first encounter it. And if you only have one try for learning each new mechanic, you have to fail 5-6 times before you have even seen all the mechanics.

Therefore I suggest every player to overlevel a lot before doing Dungeons for the first time.

Just that with t4 there is no overleveling.

Two things, so you can learn how the mechanic works. This is useful in more then just the boss, and it can have more tutorials on stuff inside the dungeon.

And also, a balancing factor. I dunno, I think just being able to fight the boss over and over in a “practice” mode just means the boss mechanics are learn immediately.

I really like this idea, even just one extra life would go a long way, a “Second chance” mode.

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Big agree on this point, one thing you can’t learn from lower tier fights is what can oneshot you on T4 as an ability that maybe takes a quarter hp in T3 can oneshot in T4.

I don’t really like the dungeon bosses since you HAVE to play around all their mechanics so much and limit area so much, really punishes builds that have additional rotations and that aren’t just spam one skill(or skills with auto target). The area denial is also busted at the moment for minions (and kinda rough for melee) as there is no way to keep minions out of degen fields.

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I think you have been unlucky, don’t harass me but I often forget to collect keys :rofl:

Just to make sure these points actually stick to how stuff works, the speed of casts increases as tier increases, as does area of some skills. The one thing you can’t procatice is this stuff, you have to see the fights firs tot see what there’ll be like.

Obviously you can intuit where things might progress to speed and area wise, based on what changes, and by how much, through t1-t3. But the fact does remain that t1 is a terrible difficulty to practice at, it’s really not the same encounter.

I played the game for 120 straight hours after 0.9e came out. In that time, I saw about 80 keys drop. Considering that keys (probably?) have a high probability to drop in those dungeons themselves, I could play for weeks or months and never get through all of those. I think the issue is really that it’s hard to tell what their value is until you start using them and which ones are good to start with. If you really need keys, all you have to do is work towards them in monolith. I assume it’s hard to completely run out for that reason also.

80 Keys may sound like a lot, but it really isn’t. At 120h you farmed for it, that’s less then 1 Key/h. This means that in order to do a specific T4 Dungeon ONCE, you’d have to farm like 20h to get the 4 keys needed for it (provided they have an even droprate).

Your 80 Keys (if they are evenly distributed) translate to a whopping 5 tries per T4 Dungeon, or even less if you consider that you need to spend some to get T1-3 done first.

Sure, watching a video, reading about boss mechanics etc. help, but (as for example any WoW player will confirm) nothing can replace personal experience to get the execution right (and keeping it up over several minutes…).


80 keys is a lot! You want end game bosses on every corner? Not gonna happend. How many uber atziri keys in poe for example you can get in 2h? I can answer - zero.

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Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I have much of the same feelings with Echoes. Just permanently losing out on rewards because something random in the dungeon (not even the boss) decided to randomly one-shot me just feels bad, and does not encourage trying to do them further. I could understand being kicked out and having to do the dungeon over, but forever losing the rewards is just cruel.

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Right but how long does it last if you do the whole thing, and how many keys for other dungeons drop during? I wasn’t aware there were dungeons that take 4 keys, but it seems like if it were to only take one, you’d run a pretty good chance of getting another one back every run, albeit you’d have no control over which one that would be.

Maybe being able to buy a key now and then would be acceptable, but it does not take me an hour to get a key from monolith if I really want one. You’re probably never more than 2-3 echoes away from a key echo, and those can take as few as 5 to 10 minutes to blow through in endgame gear. So that’s about 30 minutes, assuming one doesn’t drop off a unique enemy before then.

i dont really agree with the view of not enough keys for most people, but to your poitn about keys, lightless arbor you can get away with 2 keys in, and have a reaosnable chance of vault giving you your third (you can skip teir 1 by hitting lvl 55). Soulfire and Temporal really aren’t that likely to drop a key, the bosses don’t give guaranteed drops like timelines bosses are meant to.

Evidence: Everyones experience in the boss race.

Also key echoes arent a thing for dungeons. Are you getting mixed up with arena keys and arena here? This thread is about dungeons, Lightless Arbor, Soulfire Bastion, Temporal Sanctum. The keys for these are random drops, or supposedly guaranteed from monolith bosses (this might be bugged).

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Wasn’t aware I was only getting Arena keys from Monolith. If you can get them from Monolith bosses, then that’s a much longer grind. (Also wasn’t aware of how many keys they take, I am saving that content for later. Need a good long break after finishing Monolith.) And yeah if they don’t drop in the dungeons themselves, then that’s wack.

I think the obvious solution is just to make it where the keys drop in the dungeons so you can keep reentering as long as you’re playing well and not dying constantly. The game forcing the loot to be key anemic just so you get fewer runs is not something I’d approve of.

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This mechanic is awful. I’m not going to watch videos to learn boss mechanics. Terrible game design. Kills the appeal of the endgame for me. I guess i’ll just pre-order Diablo 4.

You’re allowed to play whatever games you want, if you want to spend your precious time playing D4 more than LE, do that. Life is too short. The devs aren’t going to think “oh no! Somebody’s going to play D4 instead of LE!!!”, especially while they’re playing D4…

With the internet not being fully reliable one attempt at a boss seems like a recipe for frustration in a game with one-shot mechanics. And, getting a chance to learn boss mechanics through experience in a not-highly-frustrating way should be a no brainer.

POE has its share of imperfections and in some key ways Last Epoch has avoided or fixed them. But, in the clear majority of cases POE offers up to six attempts at a boss and that was a good choice. With a fairly low limit on the number of chances people can’t just throw a badly under-prepared character at a boss however many times it takes until the boss runs out of hit points. But, six attempts does allow for better opportunities to learn boss mechanics because being able to try to dodge that hard to avoid boss mechanic several times in a row in a short time span is a huge help for learning.

Even if all six portals are used up and that specific boss run fails there’s a good chance the player has had a chance to make noticeable progress toward getting a better sense of the mechanic and to develop a bit of muscle memory for how to respond to it. That will tend to help greatly toward tempering any feelings of frustration and disappointment from a failed run.