Yes, it’s against ToS. It’s against many game’s ToS and yet trainers still exist for most games. Even something as simple as using cheat engine to change a variable is a thing.
You can’t use a trainer and you can’t use a hacked version of the game, but you can be sure both will exist. They won’t be legal to use, but they’ll be there.
Maybe devs will change their minds and allow offline modding, like D2R does. Maybe they won’t. But it’s certain that if a feature doesn’t exist online it won’t exist offline. They’ve said that both clients will do the same thing, except for online-only features like chat/trade/group/etc.
I guess this is something I never thought about but it doesn’t bother me at all. Playing an ARPG I assume that I am going to play more than one character and even if I don’t I know that will be restarting every season/league/whatever they decide to call it.
Meaning that regrinding till 50 and above isn’t too much of a deal breaker to me at all.
I want to play void knight as my first character in 1.0. Is speed, or what im playing on the way to endgame more important? Speed for me. But do I want to play vk over the other 2 spec? Yes. If I had respecs I’d be playing paladin or forge guard until endgame, then switching to vk.
Would I want to do that? No. Would I play sentinel at all if I wanted to just go as fast as possible, also no (i’d play rogue).
I want to min max around the confines of the game, for the stuff in the game I enjoy the most. It isn’t just min max everything, or min max nothing, theres a gradient there. Having limitations and restrictions enables more optimization and theorycrafting, strategy etc…
Basically just don’t decide everyone that wants to minmax, is only going to play the single most broken thing.
The other part people who make these arguments miss, is that alot of people playing the game will look at the more optimal/efficient things. If we had mastery respecs, every guide for being optimal on the way to endgame for void knight, would tell them to level as paladin, then switch over later. This would suck for everyone.
Also theres no reason, if we had mastery respecs, we shouldnt also have class respecs, every argument for mastery respecs can also be used for class respecs lol.
Except that’s not true. Just because you disagree with an argument doesn’t make it invalid. Also the view that the devs viewpoint is the only one that matters is also demonstrably false, if that was what they thought, they wouldn’t have a forum for feedback (since their view is the only correct one, anything that contradicts that is, by definition, wrong).
They haven’t said they are against offline modding, just that in LE’s pre-1.0-with-it’s-properly-offline-mode, they wouldn’t be able to prevent people from using a mod (as contrasted with “just” character editing/using trainers) & then getting to wave 10 trillion on the leaderboards. Though I’d imagine it would be fairly obvious.
Not really. I already said that the devs can change their mind about things, which they do through player feedback. But there really is only one argument about why something HAS TO BE inside the game. There are many arguments about why we would LIKE things to be in the game. But those don’t make it mandatory for the thing to be implemented.
Case in point, shards autopickup. The vast majority of players would like this to be a thing but there is no argument that you can come up with for why it absolutely HAS to be in the game. Only the devs can do that, since it’s their game and only they know what they want their game to be like. Even if later they change their minds.
The distinction I’m making is between “I’d like it if this thing existed in the game” vs “This HAS to be in the game”. The former is absolutely fine and constructive to the state of the game. The latter usually comes with insults (like it’s bs, or game sucks without this, etc), or with constant whinning tring to make the same argument over and over with different words.
I actually don’t know their stance on offline modding. But if changing local files is against ToS, then they have to be against it, considering you can’t use mods without it.
Masteries and class are two fundamentally different things so no, the same arguments can’t be used for both.
What if you could respec only after certain level? Let’s say 95, so you’d dedicate a lot of time on one mastery. There’s plenty of ways to make masteries not permanent without affecting the game too much.
I personally don’t even see how changing masteries while you level and get to end game be a terrible thing since end game is where you’ll spend 95% of your time anyway.
The arguments ive seen for mastery respecs, could be used for class as well as mastery.
There are certainly arguments about masteries that dont apply to class though.
I personally don’t see how changing class after you level would be a terrible thing, if you could change mastery after you level anyway, since end game is where you’ll spend 95% of your time anyway.
I kinda wanna make the assumption that no one asking for mastery respecs has ever levelled to 95 lmao
I think the argument that it may not be within EHG’s vision of the game for Mastery Respecs to exist is appropriate here. Someone had made this argument earlier, I wish only I had only the patience to find it, but there are examples of games with “missing” features everywhere that would make the average gaming experience nicer or more smooth for some, but would impact the vision and view of the game substantially for those who enjoy it.
You can’t make everyone happy, basically.
Personally, this is a non-issue, I enjoy the game for being the game and hope the devs continue to build the game however they want to.
Yeah, but that’s not the same as saying that the only viewpoint that matters is the devs’ one.
When a person says that a thing “has to be” in the game, what they mean is “I really want this thing to be in the game”. All you need to do when you see a thread like that is roll your eyes & remember that their request has as much validity as any other request. You can be damned sure that if a person is frothing at the mouth because their desired thing isn’t in the game, the devs are rolling their eyes & if it’s not a thing they want to add, or there’s not a phenomenally good reason for it to be added, ignoring it.
The latter is just the former written by someone with an inflated sense of their self-worth.
They have previously said that they aren’t against modding when there’s a proper offline version of the game, but that could have changed (since it was back when Sarno was still here).
Funny you should mention that 'cause there’s a lovely long thread about it. If you’ve not read it, the devs view (which, allegedly, is the only valid one) is that the mastery is what other games would consider the class & you just don’t finish “picking” your class until you’ve selected the mastery.
Yes, most of my issues with this, and the reason I keep participating in these arguments, is because most players talk like they’re entitlted to it. Or, even worse, like other players are idiots for not agreeing with them. And why I say that only the dev’s opinion matters on what has to be in the game.
When I enquired about shards autopickup and was told that it won’t happen and why I just accepted it. I made my point that I’d like to have it and don’t really see the benefit of doing dozens of posts of “but what about” or “but who does it hurt?” or whatever. In fact, quite the contrary, I think those are more harmful than helpful.
Yes, one of the biggest issues regarding this is a matter of perception on what mastery actually is. Many players don’t view it in the same way the devs do.
Personally I view it like D&D classes and sub-classes. You pick rogue as your class and then further down the line you specialize as Arcane Trickster, Assassin, Thief, Swashbuckler, etc. At no point do you expect to redo that. You’ve learned to become an Assassin, you don’t suddenly forget that and magically learned Thief skills.
But some players view mastery as equivalent to wearing a full set of gear (yes, this is a reference to D3). Something they should be able to switch whenever they want.
I don’t think we wil ever be rid of this perception issue, so the only real solution (whether we get the respec or not) is to try and communicate that better to the players in game. It still won’t work, because you may put it in blinking text and ask 10 times if they’re sure and some people still won’t read it or pay attention to it.
Then the devs did a terrible job presenting that idea properly. There’s no hint during character creation that your choice is permanent. I like others, saw the 5 classes, clicked on them saw masteries and thought you could pick them without any restriction afterwards.
If you showed the character screen to most people they would think they’re specializations you can swap between, like in WoW you have warlock as a class but then Affliction/Demo/Destruction as specs and you can change between them.
Don’t agree with this. I still don’t see the point of having it be like it is. If you keep making noise devs can change their minds about things because they could come to the conclusion a certain thing is very unpopular.
I would seriously doubt that. There are many games where you choose your Mastery/Subclass/Specialization/etc later on in the character’s development, and most of them (Id wager > 90%) are permanent. Most people would assume they can’t be changed.
More likely, people who are used to playing D3 and POE as their primary gaming experience would make the assumption you suggest. To the rest of us, who have been playing for decades, the assumption is that choices are usually permanent.
Dude, there’s a giant warning message when you choose your mastery that tells you it is permanent. How do you choose to ignore that then claim there is no warning?
Dude how can you not properly read my message?
During character creation there’s nothing that shows it will be permanent. All it says when you click on the masteries is: “Mastery Class is chosen during the campaign”.
Nice condescending tone. I too have been playing for decades . Besides using “back in my day” as a way to support an argument is not great.
I don’t necessarily think it’s correct to assume that the devs need to make it overtly explained that you cannot undo the choice of mastery. That’s just the game. I also think it’s rude to assume that the devs will want to change their mind because a minority of players complain about a feature. I’m sure at some point during design the question came up internally as to if masteries should be able to be reset or not, and that’s how we ended up where we are with the system. It isn’t how they wanted to structure the game and it’s class system, so they didn’t. Voice your concerns, of course, and if the devs find it appropriate to make a change they will. But I don’t think your opinion on the mastery system is as wide as you believe it is.
Ok, so using that logic, should every warning message related to your character be visible at the character creation screen just so you don’t waste your time? Should it also state that corruption in monoliths increases enemy stats? How about a message about dying in a dungeon means you lose the key? Not every facet of in-game risk and reward needs to be available upon logging in.
Not to mention that your original post said you wish you could refund due to this reason. You could have easily performed a Google search to see the constraints on masteries before you even bought the game. It would take less effort than making this post.
I will say, it def is the trend now in most modern games.
Many mmos/rpgs now let you respec your secondary class. id say its prolly 50/50.
In general in the rpg sphere permanent choices are dwindling. this is a good thing if you hate rng loops, and a bad thing if you enjoy a more roguelike experience.
Like pokemon is a decent example. at first systems couldnt be changed. Your effort values, individual values, nature, and ability all were locked in. Now you can change all of them through end game systems designed to allow you to “fix” pokemon you caught earlier.
I think there is an argument to be made for both. its still a weird ass hill to die on because the one permanent choice in this game you make really fast into progression, and thus can fix it without much time loss if you mess up. if you got to level 100 then suddenly were like “uhm actually I need to be the other mastery” imo you have no ground to stand on, if it was such a problem you would have fixed it earlier before you sank so much time into your mastery.
even if you are like a new player, and didnt know that druid couldnt get avalanche because of the skill point chain system, that at latest is gonna happen around level 50-55, which is a few hours of gameplay, again if you are refunding and quiting over anywhere from 3-10 hours of gameplay in a game you will be expected to sink dozens or hundreds into a single character? your a lost cause sadly.
I never said I would refund. I like the game, you’re confusing me for someone else.
And trying to straw man with random stuff that isn’t relevant isn’t gonna help.
Literally all devs have to do is make it clear mastery choices are permanent.
Mastery Class is chosen during the campaign (and is permanent)”.
There you go.
It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of people who didn’t expect that that could very easily be avoided.
. Besides using “back in my day” as a way to support an argument is not great.