The cost to fully respec (if you’re changing ascendancies it’s assumed you want a different build so most likely you will have to respec most of your passive tree) is actually much higher, requiring 100+ regrets. The reason most players don’t actually respec is because you have to actually spend quite some currency and then spend some time and still do the lab.
It becomes much more efficient to simply create a new one and get a carry and then either dump the first character or keep it around for other purposes.
Surely if we’re talking about “optimal play” then that would be to pay for a carry through campaign and monos in a full group by a speedrunner that know what they’re doing & can have it done in a few hours)? Though I suspect that (& your comment about using levelling skills) is a little bit out-of-scope for a discussion about how unfair/unreasonable not being able to respec one’s mastery is like you can do in PoE.
And, if we’re talking about common language useage of the terms mastery & ascendancy, if we ignore flights of stairs the most “common” (given it is not a particularly commonly used word anymore) that one might ascend to are higher levels of importance (in an organisation) and god/sainthood. Neither of which are exactly quick things either, thus while I get Mike’s useage of the term mastery to mean something that takes a long time to attain, I’m not sure that wouldn’t also apply to something one could ascend to just as much. Therefore, why is it ok to have mastery refer to something time consuming (& thus unchangeable in LE) but it’s different to using ascendancy refer to a very similar thing that is not fixed & unchanging?
Just because you didn’t/don’t doesn’t mean that others don’t.
They are, but that doesn’t mean that some aren’t more effective or better to use to level with.
Or it might not be, depends on how much you’re going to respec your passive tree.
Sure. And as I said before, if you finish the lab, ascend and want to immediately respec, it will only cost you 10 regrets, even less because you already have refund points from quests.
However, in general, when you want to change builds in PoE you end up respecing most of your passives because you use different paths. Especially if you’re changing ascendancy.
As I said, it’s something that’s possible in PoE but it’s not really worth doing. In 2 years in a clan I never heard of anyone doing this and, in fact, I didn’t even know this was possible until recently.
Whenever someone wanted to change builds (with different ascendancies) they simply got a carry. I did lots of those because I don’t mind doing the campaign, so I know.
That doesn’t mean that maybe someone uses this every now and then. It’s just rare.
Yes, and you don’t have all your passives in your selected Mastery in LE, the moment you select it from Gaspar. I mean, even if we’re not talking apples to apples, let’s at least keep it fruit to fruit.
According to your logic, you wouldn’t completely select your LE Mastery until Lvl100, and you’ve allotted your last passive point.
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No Mastery respec, is bs
No Class respec is bs.
No respec between games is bs - why can’t I level warlock in WoW and continue with it in LE?
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Sorry, I guess you’ve never heard the 10,000 hour saying before. The general concept of a master of a skill in the real world (nothing to do with Last Epoch) is someone who has spent 10,000 hours developing that skill.
This has nothing to do with how long it takes the player or the character to actually get a mastery in game. I’m talking about the connotations that come with the word master and mastery.
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But it’s very easy to switch masteries in the real world. I mastered soccer (futbol) as a youth, but then just switched that to baseball when I was a junior in Highschool, because we didn’t have a soccer team. All I had to do was talk to the athletics teacher, and he swapped everything for me.
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Did you master it, though? There’s a difference between being a master and an amateur.
It’s like saying you mastered carpentry because you had a wood work class in school.
Carpenters spend many many hours perfecting their craft to become masters. And yes, maybe a master carpenter can change later in life and try to become a master blacksmith, that is very uncommon, not to mention that they’d spend a long time as an apprentice blacksmith, then a regular blacksmith until he could finally be called a master blacksmith.
(I think it was a joke)
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Virtually every day from age 5 through 14… if I didn’t amass over 10k hours, I would have been real surprised.
There are more requirements to being a master of a craft than simply spending hours on it. There are many things that, even if I spent 100k hours on it, I would still suck at it, or at best I would become acceptable.
Masters in soccer are Messi, Ronaldo and the like. Were you close to that?
EDIT: to clarify, there are THOUSANDS of players all over the world that aren’t masters. Most are just decent, some are even good players. There aren’t that many masters.
The message, yes, and also the lore/story behind it happening, and how it affects all the skill trees, and especially now with how early on you get it and how little time you spend playing as the “base” class. For the message and the story, you can say “People don’t read”, and you’re not wrong, but IMO that just supports me - If you’re blasting through all text, you don’t get to complain that you misunderstood something.
What overlap?
Just think of it like a different class…
Also, it’s kind of hard to take your post seriously when you rant and rave like a child having a tantrum.
Not to mention that you could have known it before you bought the game because it was never a secret. And, if you buy a game pre-release there are no guarantees.
In short, grow up.
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Yes, I was the 1st coming of Messi. In fact, everything Messi and Ronaldinho know is because they watched tapes of me as a 7 year old. Hell, even Maradona would call me for pointers (little known fact - he got the idea for The Hand of God from my 8-9 city championship game). Would you care to venture farther down this rabbit hole?
Also, you are taking the position that, once Mastery has been achieved, there is no longer room for improvement. Would you say Bruce Lee was a marital arts ‘Master’? Because, even according to him, he was constantly learning, and improving. Mastery isn’t a “welp, here I am, now there’s nothing left for me”. Yes, Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Maradona, Pele, etc… masters. But that doesn’t mean those not at their level aren’t masters as well. Look at GM ranks in chess… the skill levels vary wildly between those considered masters there. So, once again… how far do we wish to travel down this hole?
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Now I don’t know if you’re just poking fun or are being serious 
My point was just that becoming a master requires a lot more than just putting in the hours and work. Some people just don’t have the talent or whatever that’s required to actually become a master of their craft. No matter how much they try.
I have programmed for over 10k hours and, while I’m a good programmer, I would never call myself a master in programming. I have also DJ’ed in a local club for almost 10 years, and yet I would never call myself anything other than decent, or ok, in that craft.
That all depends on how you spent that time. Sure, you could have spent 10k hours cut and pasting javascript from google searches, for all I know. That might make you a Google-search, or cut and paste Master… But, if you seriously dedicated 10k hours to honing your programming skills, then you would…by definition…be considered a master. I mean, it’s like you’re purposely being obtuse, just to be obtuse. Yes, people can spend 10k hours on something and not be better than someone else… or there’s an off-chance they would still be bad at it. Being a master of something doesn’t necessarily mean being the absolute best at it.
So yes, by definition my youth was spent mastering the sport of soccer. And, I would argue, that I mastered it given my physical capabilities at the time. Also, even if I didn’t achieve Messi-level mastery, that still wouldn’t negate the comparison that I just couldn’t take that time/skill and apply it to baseball overnight.
No, it doesn’t. However, it does mean that you have mastered EVERYTHING there is about it. And I certainly haven’t. In fact, there are many parts of programming I haven’t even delved in the first place, like AI, 3D rendering, etc.
I might say that I’m a master at making MVC/MVC.Core C# web applications, but even then there are still lots of things to learn about and constantly new things coming out. So not even that.
Of course, not all craft are constantly evolving like programming. But to become a master in a craft, you have to be able to have mastered everything about that craft. You’re not a master carpenter if all you know how to do are stools and if you try to do a chair it falls apart.
Likewise, you’re not a master carpenter if you just do a decent job. You’re only master carpenter when the stuff you do is well above average.
75 replies in one day, that’s one of the good weekly bait threads.
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Well, i’d say because for Games like this, people still want to have somewhat of an Meaningful choice, and i go by that as well. Don’t get me wrong, by no means i personally wish to go back to the old-school Diablo 2 days, where you could like not respec at all, and could potentially screw over your complete build, or the “fear” of not trying out skills if they might fun for you, because well, without respec it would be a waste of points and such.
I appreciate “modernizing” this concept in a lot of ways, that i don’t have to fear out to totally screw up, and can’t fix that because either the Grind is way too extreme (though opposite way can be hurtfull too if it’s too easy to respec) or there aren’t any respec-options, or that it allows me to experiement more.
But in the same way it also had it’s downsides and drawbacks. That more and more Characters you create kinda lose identity, because unlike older days where when you create a character clearly build toward something, quite some modern entries miss this because you can change everything on the fly. It kills replaybility with doing more characters with different builds and ideas. And it especially push away the concept and consequence of meaning full choices. Some stuff which you have to decide for and stick with, and if you can’t deal with that, you’ve to start over a fresh character for a different choice / direction.
It’s like the problem with games which have Skilltrees and such, where in the end you learned everything… sure you have exceptions where this can work out - like as example a very storydriven/campaigndriven Game with no real postgame content, a skilltree where you max out everything can still make sense to a dagree, because you can define the way you tackle the adventure, which skills and stuff you prioritze first. But Games like this, which lives for it’s build diversity and stuff, having all skills and passives unlocked can kill a key element which makes this games so interesting and engaging and also kills a skillsystem in a terms of an concept, because it doesn’T make any sense anymore then and they could make a linear progression where you get everything anway…
So there needs to be a limit, because people want to tinker around and want to experiment.
And in the same fashion also people want something in the game, which is also a more meaningfull and permanent choice, and in that regard locking specialization/mastery makes the most sense, because it’s the expansion of your initial choice of a class heck - i’d argue even further, this is actually “pick your real-class”-Choice, and that needs to be meaningfull and permanent. The same ways some people pointed here out, that you can’t change classes in Diablo - or masteries in Grim Dawn.
And about the Point with “but Path of Exile” - a little reminder here - atleast as long my memory serves right (people who play more PoE than me can correct me if i’m wrong) → but in PoE Respeccing the last time i played, was pretty limited in sense of - it either costs you or you have to put efford in to actually respec. Which means if the Grind / Cost - Ceiling is too high, it already gives the whole “choices” more weight (not as much as permanent but still) - so you have that here. But considering how “easy” (atleast last time i played LE - like last year… but now i wait for full release) respeccing is in LE compared to PoE, there needs some sort of compensation for that… and now you can tell me what’s better / worse (atleast for you) →
Do you rather want to grind your Soul out or have to pay money to respec your class?
Or
Do you waant to have a permanent mastery-selection, which you can fix for a new character within an hour…
(And again something needs to be meaningfull here).
In PoE you would be paying regret orbs to change, 40 if you have all the passives. Even at league start you dont need to grind your soul to get that, you even get im not sure how many from quests while leveling up. For people who say oh and do the laberynth, yes that is true but you can do the first lab that is extremely fast and easy at that point. LE could balance the costs if the devs want to go that route, I never expected to be free, decisions have consequences and that is good.
I keep hearing the same reason of why players (not devs) think that respec mastery is bad. Bc then the choice is meaningless and characters lose identity. But the truth is, if you as a player want your char to keep his identity then dont use the respec, easy as that. If that is what you value then the feature is not for you and you can keep playing the same game as happy as you were. Now you can not say the same about the current system bc if I want to respec I dont have that choice. Is all about having options.
So what I am hearing is that you as a player dont really want your characters to have identity, you want the game to force you to do it bc if you are given the choice then that is not what you would do. And that is what bothers me about all the negative comments from other players about why I shouldnt have this QoL so they dont need to deal with the decision of using it or not.
From the devs point of view, enforcing certain behaviour is a valid way of getting the players to do what they envision for the game. That is not always what the game needs or what some number of players would like. LE devs have been very good at listening and I really appreciate it. Right now when the game doesnt have that much content I can see the appeal of keeping a decision like this that would no doubt inflate the played time and other metrics which result in more money and can result in a better game in the future. I dont think is a good thing but it is what it is. The excuse of they dont wanting people using different masteries at different states of progression is very weak at best, just go and check how many ppl do that in PoE where you can change spec. Im not asking for free every 5 secs switch mastery. Im asking for the option to change my mastery if I feel I made the wrong choice, even if it means to grind a couple of hours for it. I would rather grind endgame that spend that very same time leveling, for once is more fun to me, on the other hand I can get much better loot while doing it than while I level. If for you is more fun the leveling part, then you dont respec and level a new char and then we both get what we wanted, everyone happy, right?