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New formula to show REAL dps?

Hello, today I tuned in to the last epoch dev livestream. And asked a question about the accuracy of the dps tooltip. In short the dev did a great job at explaining in a simple way why it’s very hard to calculate the REAL damage of a skill, because of all the conditions it can’t take into account like “20% chance to deal x more dmg to elite monsters” and similar modifiers.

What I wanted to suggest, Is a system based on average damage pec second. by remembering the damage you did to the last 10 monsters and how many hits you did (or something similar perhaps). Obviously it will change with every encounter and with each new mob attacked.
But it will be somewhat more accurate knowing how much average dps you are capable of doing by recent blows you inflicted with a certain skill?

What do you guys think? I’m not a developer myself so I don’t know the full meaning or complexity of my suggestion… just an idea.

Ps: devs are amazing and I look forward to further developments! And the current dps helps to distinguish between equip upgrades regardless if it shows true dps or not :slight_smile: so thats a big QOL improvement already

If the tooltips dps get’s more features i think, conditional stuff like this should go into a seperate info box, maybe on the character sheet.

With alot of conditional stuff tooltips dps can get unneccessary complex.
Of course some informations that are currently not included in the calculation are important.

I am all in to include all sorts of advanced stuff into a more advanced tooltip.

But i personally don’t like the idea of tooltip dps being dependong on the last X hits/monster you dealt damage too.

I thinks it’s really important to not overload the UI with information, even though some of these informations might be usefull, it can make the UI not very pleasant to read.

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My concern is that it will make it very dynamic (changing literally after every new hit) and it might be unpleasant for the user indeed.

I like what you said about the additional box with the more complex conditional stuff, the idea of somehow separating these 2 might help to predict a more accurate dmg output as well. (But yeah it will add more info and UI clutter potentially).

Either way, I trust the devs will improve it further as time goes :smile:

I think it’s all about peoples exceptations too.

I personally do not need to know “how much dps/dmg” my skills are doing. I really do not care for numbers at all.

The thing that matters for me, are item/passive comparisons. And for this, the system works very very well, if the affixes/passives are not conditional.

The question is: How important is it, to know the exact dmg your skill is doing?
I know some of the conditional stuff is really important to judge for certai nscenarios, but since the tooltip dps is not for comparing different skills, it doesn’t matter that much.

A tooltip dps number can’t be real in my opinion. The best thing i saw was a mod for Grim Dawn that shows you the dps on the dummy. But then you need also a dummy with mitigation stats. So something like a testing area with these features would be great :slight_smile:

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I’m the opposite of Heavy… the more numbers I have the happier I am. My skill has an extra 6% base crit chance? Ok… so what’s the actual crit chance of that ability? It has +XX% chance to inflict bleed from 3 different nodes? Ok, what does that come to with my gear stats included? I really really hope there’s eventually a way to get this information without having to whip out a calculator and brush off my highschool math, because I hate math, but I love knowing the exact numbers for my skill.

Even if I can just get a summary with totals for it somewhere (even a separate window), I’d be unbelievably happy.

Heavy still wants to see the numbers, just on a different screen, like this:

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As Llama pointed out, i still would like to see all those advanced stuff.

But it is very easy to overload the UI with informations and many of those informations, while “interesting”, are actually not important for decision making.

I totally agree that stuff like “skill specific crit chance” is very important, but stuff like “bleed chance from all the different sources” is really just a secondary informations, that should not be displayed, if you are not really want to look deeper into as skill.

If we get a seperate window/ui for all of this iam fine. But the tooltip needs to be as easy to read as possible.

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I have trouble evaluating damage for my necro pets build at the dummy (numbers happen too quickly), also it is hard to determine damage from multiple sources.
The idea I have to solve this issue would be to have a set of dummys with different health pools 10K, 100K, 1M etc or have a varaible dummy whos stats you can set in game at the end of time.

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(dummys with armour + res + dps counter) + more detailed tooltips, next patch please? xD
dummys with fix hp numbers are also fine… :slight_smile:

…i realy like the idea to have a training room + dps leader board xD

The vast majority of mobs don’t have armour or resists, they just have a global damage reduction based on level.

as a normal player i only see things like penetration or armour shred in my skills/passives, so i ideally want to see how it affects the mobs in a test environment

One could add a tick box for ‘advanced tooltip formulae’ too, so then would be more elaborate?

I agree with Heavy for the most part. What I do think is critical is to show what is increasing damage at a base level. For example skills show EXACTLY how much increase you get from the stat that affects said skill e.g. strength 4% increase 24% total. This should happen for all the other tags that affect that skill. If fire is a tag, show me how much bonus I’m getting from my for nodes, passives, and equipment. If a node changes something on the skill, adjust accordingly. An example of that would be Earthquake changing from melee to spell with the Storm Rift node. At least show the tags associated with the skill, as spec’d. This happens so often with skills it gets a little difficult, at least for me, to know what’s going on. Therefore it can get confusing on how I should gear my character.

Since the game knows what abilities I have (and how they behave in combat), it should not be to hard for the game to present an average dps to a boss. This boss should be possible to select via an advance feature of the UI (check box (normal/advance info)). Also a break down should be possible to see for those who like to see that.