The only issue in the top FG build is that Grim Constitution (the shield) stacks ward based on HP “outside of combat” and disables ward generation in combat.
Idk how arena works but it doesn’t seem like a great way to stack ward if you can only generate ward outside of combat lol.
Well, I’m not going to argue with those who pretend that divine barrier, constitution are not ward, or that pretends that ward generation is different from “ward stacking”.
Okay, so we generally agree. Available content - agreed. Then again, the post wasn’t about that really, but the power gap.
That’s fair, but we’re on patch 1.1, also a high corruption orobyss would still be a harder boss, but that comes down to out definition of what content do we consider main content.
Never said you did, I just overexaggerated with this example that this is not what OP is talking about.
Even if you want to consider slapping a single shield as “having to use ward”, which it isn’t, his build doesn’t use any ward decay/threshold or per second nodes. He certainly doesn’t stack int, having only 1 int.
In fact, his whole build is stacking health and defenses as normal, he just has a shield that gives him ward out of combat (which is useless for bosses, but I can see it has having minor advantadges in echoes and possibly also arena.
So for all intents and purposes, it is a health build.
And the most succesful FGs in ladder don’t stack INT, so your argument there also isn’t true.
Read Grim Constitution, yes, again.
Bye. Go in peace
If you had continued reading what DJ had to say, you’d have seen he covered the effects of the shield.
It disables ward generation while in combat and gives ward generation outside of combat based on Health.
I’m not elaborating about it because you both clearly don’t know what you talking about.
Shield provides 142% threshold based on HP ALL TIMES, regardless if it is in combat or not.
Rahyeh’s Chariot charges provides immunity with removes combat.
If you cast on your ally (forge minion) it has 75% CD recovery, plus Valiant Charge with +30% CD recovery.
Average forge guard are around wave 100 , this forge guard is 5000000000% more efficient for a reason.
If that were actually true, you’d see most builds at the top using it. When in fact ForgeMaster is the only one using it in the top 10 FGs. Not even Gege uses it and he’s #2.
So if the shield alone was such a huge boost, and as mandatory as you say, you’d be seeing a lot of them using it, instead of just 1.
Theres a reason why one is outperforming the other by a mile.
The game is new, the season is new, its just a matter of time. Just like before cycle 1.
You say that as if it’s hard to get one. It’s a common drop. Lots of people have one.
Again, if it was that simple, everyone would be using it.
You look at the top 30 FG builds, see the #1 using it and think that it’s because of the shield and it’s mandatory.
I look at the top 30 FG build, assume ForgeMaster is simply a better player (or more patient, since it takes forever to get to wave 1k) and that he would perform about the same with a different shield.
If the immunity from Rahyeh’s Chariot is genuinely removing you from combat, then that’s a bug and needs to be reported.
The Ward Retention could be at 6000000000000000000000000000% and it wouldn’t matter. Retention just slows down the natural Decay. If you have 4,000 ward and 999,999,999% Ward Retention and take a hit for 4,000 damage (after damage reductions), you’ll still have 0 Ward remaining. Just like if you had 0% Ward Retention.
Who cares if the retention lasts in combat, you can’t generate more ward in combat so what you had upon combat starting is the max you’ll have until combat ends.
Edit: I was thinking Retention, not threshold, my mistake.
Threshold is just how low your ward will Decay to naturally. So if you have a threshold of 400 it will not decay lower than that. Damage can still break it.
Based on his threshold of 5,061 (which is admittedly very high) he can’t Decay naturally lower than that. It takes about 4s out of combat at his 1880 ward per second before he breaks the threshold and Decay kicks in like it normally would. He has a 4% Retention and the formula for ward Decay is as follows.
(0.2 × current ward + 0.00005 × (current ward^2)) / (1 + 0.5 × ward Retention)
Or
(0.2 × 5061 + 0.00005 × (5061^2)) / (1 + 0.5 × 0.04) =
(2,301.89)/(1.02) = 2,256.75
So his natural ward generation literally can’t beat the Decay rate when at his threshold limit. Meaning his ward caps at 5,061 and cannot go higher without a burst of ward. Which he cannot do in combat. So he effectively just has a temporary extra 5k HP when combat starts. And he needs roughly 4s between combat ending and the next encounter to build that HP back up.
You’ve missed out the ward decay threshold from your formula.
So at his ward decay threshold, the ward decay = 0. Plugging the stats into Tunk’s ward calc you get (I’ve ignored his hp):
Guys.
Please, please.
Don’t feed the trolls.
If someone wants to rant absolute nonsense on the internet, just let them. They’ll make one post, said post will vanish into the depths of the forum, and if they keep posting it again they’ll just be reported for spamming.
Let it go.
I pulled it directly from here:
Which was part of the Quality of Life and More post. It’s possible they left out the Threshold from the post though.
Edit: Note this formula is what’s reflected in the Harbingers of Ruin patch notes.
I think your formula is wrong.
Reason being that the Decay rate at 10 Ward with 0 threshold would be the same as the Decay rate at 1010 ward with 1000 threshold. And that doesn’t seem right. Why would the Decay be the same at 1000 as at 10 just because you have 1000 threshold now?
I’m mental mathing this, but 10-0 = 1010 - 1000 so as long as the Decay retention is the same the formula would be the same for both scenarios.
That is correct… The resulting decay rate with those numbers would be the same given you have the exact same amount of retention. This is because ward decay is calculated on your current ward minus threshold… In both cases, the formula would be calculating the decay for 10 ward.
The fact you cannot go below ward threshold value demonstrates exactly the result of this… If you have 400 ward and 400 threshold, the retention will be calculated for 0, so no decay.
I don’t know why they omitted the threshold from the formula on that post, nor did I find any information regarding whether they changed the formula at some point prior to 1.1.
That’s just bad design imo.
It’d be much simpler to have a check for “if current ward > threshold” if yes run the calculation. Otherwise Decay rate = 0.
That would also prevent you being able to stack 4k ward on top of the 5k threshold. And it would also match the formulas shown on both pages that only current ward is taken into account.
Edit: It would also cause negative values for Ward decay if your current ward is less than your threshold, which logically would cause you to regen ward UP to your threshold, which isn’t the case. It’s far more likely that EHG is using a logic test, if Current Ward > Ward Threshold, Ward Decay = formula based on current ward. Otherwise, Ward Decay = 0. This would cause situations where your Current ward is at 140 and your threshold is at 300, and the Ward Decay is still 0. In the other formula the ward decay is -30.1176 (with Ward Retention being 4%)
But what do I know, I’ve never made a video game in my life.
This is true. HP based characters should have a way to get 8k, 10k and 15k HP.
A great way I can think of to do this would be nodes in passive tree that give double HP% if no ward.
Health Affixes now grant DOUBLE their value if not using ward. So that way ward users don’t get this benefit.
PS - HP based charaters should also have 1,000s of HP regen per sec.
No, because if your ward is less than your decay threshold then the decay rate is forced to zero.
Yes, that is correct.