Theres a reason why one is outperforming the other by a mile.
The game is new, the season is new, its just a matter of time. Just like before cycle 1.
You say that as if it’s hard to get one. It’s a common drop. Lots of people have one.
Again, if it was that simple, everyone would be using it.
You look at the top 30 FG builds, see the #1 using it and think that it’s because of the shield and it’s mandatory.
I look at the top 30 FG build, assume ForgeMaster is simply a better player (or more patient, since it takes forever to get to wave 1k) and that he would perform about the same with a different shield.
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If the immunity from Rahyeh’s Chariot is genuinely removing you from combat, then that’s a bug and needs to be reported.
The Ward Retention could be at 6000000000000000000000000000% and it wouldn’t matter. Retention just slows down the natural Decay. If you have 4,000 ward and 999,999,999% Ward Retention and take a hit for 4,000 damage (after damage reductions), you’ll still have 0 Ward remaining. Just like if you had 0% Ward Retention.
Who cares if the retention lasts in combat, you can’t generate more ward in combat so what you had upon combat starting is the max you’ll have until combat ends.
Edit: I was thinking Retention, not threshold, my mistake.
Threshold is just how low your ward will Decay to naturally. So if you have a threshold of 400 it will not decay lower than that. Damage can still break it.
Based on his threshold of 5,061 (which is admittedly very high) he can’t Decay naturally lower than that. It takes about 4s out of combat at his 1880 ward per second before he breaks the threshold and Decay kicks in like it normally would. He has a 4% Retention and the formula for ward Decay is as follows.
(0.2 × current ward + 0.00005 × (current ward^2)) / (1 + 0.5 × ward Retention)
Or
(0.2 × 5061 + 0.00005 × (5061^2)) / (1 + 0.5 × 0.04) =
(2,301.89)/(1.02) = 2,256.75
So his natural ward generation literally can’t beat the Decay rate when at his threshold limit. Meaning his ward caps at 5,061 and cannot go higher without a burst of ward. Which he cannot do in combat. So he effectively just has a temporary extra 5k HP when combat starts. And he needs roughly 4s between combat ending and the next encounter to build that HP back up.
You’ve missed out the ward decay threshold from your formula.
So at his ward decay threshold, the ward decay = 0. Plugging the stats into Tunk’s ward calc you get (I’ve ignored his hp):
Guys.
Please, please.
Don’t feed the trolls.
If someone wants to rant absolute nonsense on the internet, just let them. They’ll make one post, said post will vanish into the depths of the forum, and if they keep posting it again they’ll just be reported for spamming.
Let it go.
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I pulled it directly from here:
Which was part of the Quality of Life and More post. It’s possible they left out the Threshold from the post though.
Edit: Note this formula is what’s reflected in the Harbingers of Ruin patch notes.
I think your formula is wrong.
Reason being that the Decay rate at 10 Ward with 0 threshold would be the same as the Decay rate at 1010 ward with 1000 threshold. And that doesn’t seem right. Why would the Decay be the same at 1000 as at 10 just because you have 1000 threshold now?
I’m mental mathing this, but 10-0 = 1010 - 1000 so as long as the Decay retention is the same the formula would be the same for both scenarios.
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That is correct… The resulting decay rate with those numbers would be the same given you have the exact same amount of retention. This is because ward decay is calculated on your current ward minus threshold… In both cases, the formula would be calculating the decay for 10 ward.
The fact you cannot go below ward threshold value demonstrates exactly the result of this… If you have 400 ward and 400 threshold, the retention will be calculated for 0, so no decay.
I don’t know why they omitted the threshold from the formula on that post, nor did I find any information regarding whether they changed the formula at some point prior to 1.1.
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That’s just bad design imo.
It’d be much simpler to have a check for “if current ward > threshold” if yes run the calculation. Otherwise Decay rate = 0.
That would also prevent you being able to stack 4k ward on top of the 5k threshold. And it would also match the formulas shown on both pages that only current ward is taken into account.
Edit: It would also cause negative values for Ward decay if your current ward is less than your threshold, which logically would cause you to regen ward UP to your threshold, which isn’t the case. It’s far more likely that EHG is using a logic test, if Current Ward > Ward Threshold, Ward Decay = formula based on current ward. Otherwise, Ward Decay = 0. This would cause situations where your Current ward is at 140 and your threshold is at 300, and the Ward Decay is still 0. In the other formula the ward decay is -30.1176 (with Ward Retention being 4%)
But what do I know, I’ve never made a video game in my life.
This is true. HP based characters should have a way to get 8k, 10k and 15k HP.
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A great way I can think of to do this would be nodes in passive tree that give double HP% if no ward.
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Health Affixes now grant DOUBLE their value if not using ward. So that way ward users don’t get this benefit.
PS - HP based charaters should also have 1,000s of HP regen per sec.
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No, because if your ward is less than your decay threshold then the decay rate is forced to zero.
Yes, that is correct.
My takeaway from this is how silly MG is compared to CoF… have any of you checked the ladder for the first CoF player? Think they should be separate like men/women in athletics.
I mean, look at Forgemaster’s gear. You don’t get that in 5k hours of CoF. His blessings look like he just started the char - only one combat blessing has a high roll.
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Changing builds is not a simple thing in this game.
I had to invest a lot on optimal rive gear, is not that simple changing everything into a new build, with decent items, don’t pretend it is by ignorance or bad faith.
This shield is broken but its based on HP, you must have a whole gear based on HP so this shield can work.
I genuinely don’t know why you’re giving your opinion about this, you didn’t even read the item and I had to repeat it for you to read it 3 times.
First of all, you weren’t even aware of the item.
Then you said there was no ward threshold.
Now you’ve read the item, you understand that it has a ward threshold but you say it’s simple even not seeing the item perform once.
Stop giving your opinion about what you don’t know. Just stop.
It takes 5 minutes to switch a build at empowered monos. Especially if you line up an xp echo.
So basically what all most top FG ladder builds are using? most of them are HP builds. So simply slapping on the shield should be a huge advantage to them, according to you.
No I didn’t. Who’s lying now?
All I said is that is that his (ForgeMaster’s) build doesn’t use any ward decay/threshold or per second nodes. Which it doesn’t. You can check his passive tree allocation. And this was according to your argument that FG goes all in on ward, even to the point of saying you need to become an INT build (which, again, none of the top FGs have).
And that you don’t gain ward in combat, so it’s not useful for bosses or any longer fights.
That was because very few builds actually use it. In fact, in all of LEtools builds only one uses it. On Maxroll, none of them uses it.
I wonder why, if it’s such a mandatory OP item as you claim.
That, coupled with the fact that barely anyone in the ladder uses it as well, leads to the conclusion that the shield isn’t that OP as you claim and it rather has fringe uses or minimal gains to the build.
You’re just trying to force a point that ward is still broken based on an unique that a single person is using, when it clearly isn’t anymore and health builds are very competitive.
But you don’t actually want to see the reality of things in the face of facts and just want to vent and feel vindicated, so yeah, I won’t bother anymore. Have fun trying to create an echo chamber.
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We are done.
Convenient of you to cut off part of my sentence to fit your argument, but that has been your methodology all along. What I actually said was:
Which would go against your assumption of:
Anyway, I won’t bother replying anymore since you will just keep twisting words and taking things out of context to fit your narrative.
As I said before, have fun trying to create an echo chamber.
Peace out.
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You are twisting words.
1- You don’t understand the meaning of the words,
you are trying to dodge in the most deplorable way possible.
“Or” means a distinctive factor. You didn’t say AND, you said OR.
You said ANY ward threshold OR per second nodes, both distinct of each other. Any means all.
The funniest part is that even if you had said it right (you didn’t) you would still be wrong.
My post and my premise is that WARD is a problem for warriors, i have to invest on it, DOENS’T MATTER where it came from if i have to invest on magical SHIELD being a warrior.
The player we are talking about had to invest a literal SHIELD in his build, a slot, OBJECTIVELY WORSE than a “node”, sacrificing dual wielding and two handed weapons to broke the class with a magical shield mechanic.
Between 1 and 10, my problem with ward is 9 considering minor investments being a warrior.
This case, about this player we are talking about which sacrifices two handed and dual wielding make my problem 100000% worse than actually is.
Your argument is not “helping” you, it is literally proving my point.
For someone who wants to say he’s twisting words.
The key word in DJs statement is nodes not any. Any means “all”, you’re right. But DJ is correct in that Forgemaster doesn’t use any NODES that provided ward threshold or ward per second.
And you’re ignoring literally everyone who is telling you that you’re wrong because you don’t need to “invest in a magic shield” or “invest in intelligence” to “be a warrior.” there are plenty of viable (read: can clear 300c+) and competitive (read: can clear wave 500+ in arena) builds that don’t rely on excessive amounts of ward and treat ward as bonus HP.
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Your distaste of ward is going to be a problem no matter what you do in this game. For some reason you’re stuck on this “only mages should use ward.” despite giving examples from WoW where your tanks use “barriers” that work exactly the same.
You saying “I don’t want my ‘Warrior’ to use a magical barrier as a defensive option period!” would be as stupid as someone saying “I don’t want my Sorcerer to use any armor (the stat that reduces incoming damage) at all!”
It’s literally a defensive stat, just like armor, just like resistances, just like dodge, just like glancing blow, just like parry.
But you’re so focused on the “but magic!” aspect that you blinded to that fact.
I don’t go out of my way to add ward to any of my characters except the Mage masteries (because Flame Ward is that good), but if I get some ward from something, I just see it as “sweet, bonus HP.”
I suggest you do the same, or just play a different game. This one isn’t for you if you can’t get over Ward being “magic only”
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I’ve already explained difference between OR and AND.
He wasn’t talking about nodes, but like i’ve said, even if he did meant nodes he’s still wrong.
1- sentinel are not based on ward nodes, so makes sense nobody has ward nodes
2- items has more weight than nodes, which makes his poor argument worse