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Most broken build ever!? Nag's Wardpath

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3 Likes

:thinking:
Seems ok for me, no need to nerf it

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not the build but only the ring that are complety broken, we all know it :slight_smile:

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Wow… I’m going to try this crazy thing right now!

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Very impressive. Great job from Nagg to put that together.

But it is a perfect illustration of the main issue facing Last Epoch right now:
In the build planner, 9 uniques are used, out of 11 total gear slots.
As we are moving more and more towards a “uniques-only” game, at a fast pace, it is becoming extremely difficult, if possible at all, for the devs to foresee all the possible interactions.

This can only end in an endless spiral of broken builds created, mechanics slightly changed to prevent them, new overpowered combination found, new nerf… And so on, and so on…
This spiral has started spinning. Granted, it is almost unavoidable in this type of game (that’s why most have seasons). But the overflow of uniques, and the fact that legendaries make uniques BiS for ALL SLOTS, is going to make it spin faster and faster, much more than in other games.

No idea how to fix that. But it feels like a very, very slippery slope. With spikes at the bottom.

6 Likes

The can fix it with “you cant use more than 1 legendary per character”
ps: maybe 2 when you reach lvl100 :thinking:

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This is actually broken because Ring+Sword+Boot combo. While they may not be completely busted on their own(except maybe the ring with its massive ward gen), combined they break the game.

As more uniques get added, interactions like this will become more common. It is inevitable.

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I’m confused about how the attack speed keeps going up, as I don’t see any “scaling” attack speed anywhere.

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The boots are just the cherry on top, works the same way without them. :wink:

Where did you see the attack speed going up?

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I’m guessing you mean “movement speed”?

You’ll notice in the build planner that Nag dual-wields two Humming Bees which each grant 1% movement speed per 250 ward (so 2% per 250 in total).

Since they are generating so so so much ward, this is a lot. Based on the screenshot of 655,654 ward, these two uniques will give 5,245% increased movement speed.

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Didn’t try this, but is it also broken when you are not using 9 legendaries with perfect rolls?

Shouldn’t any strong build with 9 perfect legendaries be op?

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Nothing to do with legendaries or the quality of the rolls.
It is broken because it uses unforeseen interactions between the special mechanics of different uniques. 5 of them, to be specific (3 mechanics, two of which used twice). That’s actually very clever. But still broken.

No, in an ideal world it simply “shouldn’t” be allowed at all. :wink:

Joke apart, there is the “OP” that we use all the time for skills and builds and items and everything, which translates roughly into “really very strong”. A decent build with maxed gear should reach that.
And then, there is “OP” in the litteral sense, OVER the normal power planned for the game, which makes everything trivial and requires an intervention from the devs.

Again, nothing to do with legendaries. My post was about uniques: they have by definition special built-in mechanics, and if we allow people to use them in every slots, the results become messy and unpredictable.

While 1 per character is probably too extreme, I certainly would strongly recommend a limit around 3.
But everybody else would hate that, so I have no illusion (and I will shut up on the subject after this post).

There’s “OP” on the on the one side and “definitely broken” on the other.

Very often people complain about nerfs that not only hit the one thing that is broken but also does collateral damage. When they for example fix a skill that has unintended ward generation because of an broken interaction with another skill and the first skill then is also useless within many other builds, where it was just “ok” before.

You propose exactly this. You want to have all builds ever nerfed because of one broken interaction. This is a very extreme approach for a fix. Imho they should exactly target what makes this build going crazy and try to only fix that particular problem and make as less collateral damage to other things as possible.

And that’s the really difficult bit…

My bosses are ignoring the laws of physics and expect unrealistic things from me every day. So when I come home I just pass this on.

You really think so?
I mean this specific build is broken because of one specific item…
There are multiple ways to fix this from the top of my head, some only related to the item, some related to ward in general.

Without buggering up ward even more or making the item irrelevant, yes. Finding the middle ground where the ring is good but not overpowered either on it’s own or with insert random other uniques here

If balance were easy, this wouldn’t have happened in the first place & it’s easy to point & say “this shouldn’t have been allowed to happen” when you don’t have 264 uniques/sets, 114 skills & god knows how many passives (433, I think) to keep in your head for possible unintended interactions. I’m not having a go, it’s just that providing interesting interactions that aren’t “broken” is most definitely not a trivial thing.

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It’s just what devs do. Release stuff. See that it’s doing weird things. Fix it. Honestly, theres nothing wrong with pointing out broken mechanics and asking for a fix. I’m sure there will be one. No matter if its trivial or something to put days in. It’s what the devs do for a living.

No need to defend them or search for excuses.

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I’m not saying balancing a whole game is easy but fixing this specific item should be pretty straightforward.

Even I as someone who doesn’t really create games knows, that everytime a new item (or skill) is created that gives you some sort of stacking buff/benefit, without having any kind of limit, will turn into a problem sooner or later. And yes I do realize that there technically is a soft-cap on the ward you can generate with this interaction but lets be realistic: it doesn’t really matter for this interaction.

We saw this to some extend with Aspect of the Shark (and probably more skills/items that I can’t remember right now, some Acolyte shenanigans for sure).

Also there is a difference between balancing something and straight up not seeing something obvious, at least in my opinion this case was very obvious!

I posted in the patch notes thread

The ring needs a vast reduction in Ward Retention while equipped to the point the ward gained disappears almost instantly if not attacking constantly - something drastic like -90% less multiplier so 500% retention is now 50%, wear 2 rings and you now have -180% less retention which would be potentially negative or wearing the rings sets Ward Retention to 0% regardless of other gear