I played a fair bit of LE on the weekend after not playing it in quite a while
I rolled a new Lich to Monolith’s (62 one) and also played my old Beastmaster who is now 85
The Lich died twice in the story, cant remember first death but I died to Lagons tentacles as a one shot (second phase), then died a few more times to pure one shots from Siege Golem, culminating in ‘God hunter bird’ one shotting me.
Decided to play my BM and do some lower monoloths -
lvl 83 1036 HP, 100% Glancing Blows and about 35% all all resists - gets one shot again to Bird Hunter near the end
Did the Abomination route, ALMOST got one shot again by the Abom, 80% hp taken in 1 blow
Made it to Rahyeh and although I did not get ‘one shot’ he was kind enough to 2 shot me and I cant dodge as no movement skill + controller and he just spammed Fire Crosses repeatedly
Also another boss one shot me as well with some Meteor, cant remember the name
Is there any point to having defence? When I can go 20 monoliths taking very little damage and then simply one shot. Also some of these bosses raw attacks are doing 2k damage unmitigated
I am very careful about the ‘one shot’ wording as I know sometimes you only had 70% hp at the time etc but no these are PURE one shots. My Lich has massive HP leech for its level and my BM is almost constantly under healing from Grasping Vines
edit: another thing. If you die as a Beastmaster during a boss, your minions keep fighting it and will win. You can ‘complete’ the monolith while dead getting the passive bonus but no rewards by just using the Portal, you appear back in the End of Time dead. This is how I passed Rahyeh/Bird God …at lvl 85…by being a corpse on the floor
About 1k HP is fine, but~35% protections is not very much.
From your description it sounds like you do not have any secondary defense layer, like dodge.
On top of that alot of the stuff you mentioning are boss “mechanics/telegraphed abilities”, those can be avoided very easily, depending on the MoF Modifiers you choose.
Also consider trying to aim for movementspeed, that has a lot of defensive value for those said mechanics.
My suggestion would be to go for more protections, you could possibly even drop some max health and go for even higher protections. Currently for all chars capable of doing the lvl 100 timeline i aim for 1500-2000 effective health, this means for your ~1036 HP you should aim for 50+ protections.
Advantage of dropping some max health would be to make leech more effective. On top of that you could aim for either some additional health regen, which is pretty usefull for some boss phases where you want to play “safe” and kite or dodge a little bit. Sometimes you take a few small hits that leave yout at less than 100% health before getting hit by some lethal other mechanics.
If you then even can accumulate some dodge as a secondary defense layer your build will become even safer.
Always remember, defense is king, most of you damage comes from a good build and skill synergies, with just the majority of damage for the very very very endgame coming from gear.
I did the Abomination this morning on my Smite caster, ~500 hp, 100% glancing blow, lvl 59, resists either ~70% (elemental), 50% (armour), 68%/54%/51% for poison/necrotic/void & ~42% block chance (no shield). And most of my gear is lvl 20-30 (apart from my staff, boots & a purple belt with t6 poison protection).
The fight was pretty easy since I was able to keep moving while casting a few Smites every few seconds, some of it’s hits did take a decent amount of my hp but I think only one took me to below half hp once.
Agree with OP i don’t like the direction LE is taking with these boss oneshots (chasing the mechanics of a certain game)
It gives the feel of a shootemup arcade which i dislike and also it promotes ranged kiting playstyle (kite/dodge and get 0 damage regardless of how much you invested into tank or not).
Especially with the engine and collisions that are very clunky, when i saw Lagon beam i wanted to cry a little, his beam direction also didn’t look clear or synced, if you got too close you couldn’t even cast some skills <- this applies to many large bosses like phylactery
Now before someone comes to tell me L2p this is the char i made for this patch rank/level/wave:
I agree, that alto of the “clarity” for many mechanics is not very good.
Hitboxes and more clear and easy to read mechanics can be improved alot.
But i do prefer LE currently to any other similar game, since you can cover up (some) mistake with good/tanky gear. But alot of the very very lethal mechanics are avoidable.
Also I did forget I have Aspect of Boar up most of the time which is another 15% less damage
edit: forgot as well I have 87% crit avoidance
The point is even with 50% dmg reduction from GB and 35-40% all res and over 1k HP (my HP is higher than most peoples) im still able to get one shot - this means the bosses are doing in excess of 2.5k raw damage which is not survivable at all,
At least in PoE a ‘one shot’ attack from bosses can actually be lived through if you build correctly. I cannot choose to stack 3kHP in LE and I cant get my resists higher currently as the gear is too weak and theres no passives
Also dodge doesn’t work well for me. Ive tested a Serpent Strike dodge stacker at 70% dodge you still get hit constantly
My build rarely even takes dmg during a monolith as I just Grasping Vines the mobs to a crawl, it just some of the bosses have circular gigantic one shot AoE’s, and theres no counter play as I have no movement skill plus controller makes it too hard to use anyway
I did get your point, i just don’t agree on all points.
everything below 100 CA is not sufficient, since there can be still huge spikes of damage.
“Even” with 50% dmg reduction, sounds like it is something special. GB is a baseline defensive mechanics in LE, every build should get that without any exceptions, which seems like a bad thing at first glance(i thought that way too when i started out), but it’s nothing different comapred to resist capping in similar games.
I don’t know how much HP you have exactly, but with your 35-40% protections you barely have 1,5 eHP, which is NOT much.
You can do the same here in LE, some classes have it way easier to go super duper tanky though.
Dodge is just a secondary defense layer, you can’t rely on dodge as your main defense in LE. There is even no point in putting “too much” into dodge, as soon as you can relible reach the 50-70% dodge it’s a sufficient secondary defense layer.
Well, your build is no exception, the majority of builds don’t have any issues during the non-boss MoF Echoes.
I can’t comment much on the controller side, but if you deliberately play without movement skill you do need some movement speed increases, there is no way around it. To say there is no counterplay to boss mechanics is not true. There are indeed some bosses that have very hard to dodge skills, especially without movementskills and you do need to react instantly.
TL:DR
87% CA can still lead to one-shots, because it’s not reliable, but can be made reliable with hitting 100%
Having 100% GB is a baseline defensive milestone that every build is expected to have currently(it’s like resist capping in similar other games)
Your eHP is not very high
Try to weave in some more secondary defenses into your build, like dodge or movementspeed(or consider using a movement skill), while working on more eHP
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that I made the wrong decision purchasing this since I found out they want the endgame to be “HARD”. This isn’t an MMO, it doesn’t need “raid” bosses. I personally think catering the the “every game should be Dark Souls” crowd is pure folly. First, it’s damn near impossible to ever make them happy. Second, they are a far smaller group than they pretend on the forums (there have been many articles on this over the years).
I’m really not sure this game is trying to “chase the Dark Souls” crowd. The devs want to challenge us (which is fine, otherwise we could just play Farmville & yes, I know there’s a very wide span of potential difficulty between Dark Souls & Farmville that the game could inhabit), they aren’t making all content for everybody (which is again, fine).
If you’ve come up with a build yourself that’s having troubles with something, or if you’re just having difficulty adapting to a particular boss mechnic, that’s ok, we can help you with that. And if you think “**** it, I can’t be fing arsed with this b****”, that’s fine too, though it sucks as a player to have spent money on something & realise it’s not for you.
The devs appear to be intending this game to be more about stacking defensive affixes/passives & surviving than it being about dps. That said, if you’re skilled enough (as I think it might have been @LizardIRL), you can avoid virtually all the mechanics & play nearly nekkid (weapon, belt & boots).
Edit: Personally I’m not fond of dodge or RNG-based defences, 'cause I know I’ll get pissed when I don’t manage to manually avoid a mechanic (or I just sit in it DPSing) & fail the RNG roll & die.
Except for the weird dynamic protections mechanic currently present in MoF, i never feel like “fights taking so long and are drawn out”
The game is balanced around having to build so much defense.
It is still possible to build more tanky or more dps-orientated.
What exactly makes you feel weak? Just because majority of affixes on your gear are somekind of defense?
Even in the current system you can scale damage ridiculously high, while staying tanky.
Just because the weighting leans more towards defense does not make you feel weak in any way.
Yes some of the rares and boss fights take a few seconds, but thats intended, just building super hyper dps and killing everything in 2 seconds does not feel more rewarding or better for me.
I wish the devs would remove the % mitigation from the character sheet entirely. Protections are effective health, not resistances. 1000 hp** with 35% ‘resist’ is only 1350 EHP. Endgame characters really need to have 1600+ EHP to get started. This is also assuming you have GB capped. Crit avoidance will help you avoid freak one shots in later endgame. Aiming for 1000 prots without boosting your HP gets you there. This is achievable by the end of the story content without using any set elemental, set armor and void, or set necrotic and poison affixes, which are the strongest way of obtaining these protections.
Gold rings, protection suffixes, and vitality prefixes are you best friends.
Yes, some attacks do a ton of damage. Some of these are well telegraphed (ok to kill you if you get hit), some need work (looking at you osprix vanguard) some might require balancing. Regardless, the first response to being one shot should be to recognize that either you need to look out for the mechanic that killed you in the future and avoid it (player skill and attention required) or that your defenses aren’t up to snuff for the content you’re taking on (burden of gearing).
Except adding hp to protections is only useful if you’re trying to find out the biggest hit you can take that you would survive. For all other hits, the % is useful as it tells you how much damage will be mitigated.
I’ve managed to get through to the 2nd quest echo of the Black Sun, deathless with around 1,600 EHP (~500 hp, around 1k protections, capped glancing blow & ~88% crit avoidance), but the biggest hit I didn’t avoid took me down to around 1/4 - 1/3, so you can certainly do it with less EHP.
I thing the character sheet is just fine. It gives you all the information you need when hovering over any protection or reading the game guide for even more in depth informations.
I think the main issues is that still man people assume they know how all of this works, but in fact they don’t understand the system at all.
This makes no sense, i am not sure with that value you were calculating. If you had 1000 protections that give you 35% damage reduction you would need to have 1857 HP, that’s insane, i wanna see that build.
That’s about a good value, I personally try to aim for 1,5-2k eHP for all protections.
I guess that’s fair. I just see too many people thinking about protections like they’re the same as resistances in other games. I hope the devs can address this in a way that better educates new players that it’s a new/different mechanic.
Yeah, I guess a better way to put it is that 1k prots is a good ballpark to aim for to feel ‘safe’ when starting endgame. You can get by with 500 if you have enough leech, regen, etc and dodge all the scary stuff. Or play pure ranged and kill things before they can hit you / kite them with chill, slow, black hole, etc.
My grief is that people don’t seem to read these things and look at face value. The same is true for things like ailment chance stacking over 100%, GB not stacking over 100%, etc.
I misspoke completely here. I meant to say 1000 hp with 35% resist, which is what the OP mentioned in their initial post. Thanks for the correction.
Agree, 2k is a good place to be but it’s hard to get there without using the set affixes, which you won’t be able to do when starting into endgame after completing the campaign.
Agreed, there can be better educations or at least pointing people towards the game guide, because the game guide is great, but most people do not want to bother with formulas and stuff.
I did a typo i meant 1857 hp, but still your eHP value is incorrect.
1000 HP with 35% damage reduction would be ~1539 eHP, which is fine, depending on how much other damage reduction hes using. (The % value that is displayed is not how much more Health you have against that damage type, it’s how much damage reduction you get against that damage type)
