This is exactly the mindestet of the elitist D2 fanbase. Like there can not be another way of playing an ARPG in the end game… I get it, you like D2, but it doesn’t have to set how ARPGs work for a hundred years.
You miss the whole point of CoF. It’s about an equally effective alternative to trading. I actually think, there could be more players palying CoF than MG if they were equal in pace of gearing. This is just an assumption though. Either way, this is exactly what EHG said about the factions balancing. They want them to be equally viable, since they understand this problem in ARPGs.
It always has been since D2JSP. It’s actually sad how hard people are trying to protect it. Botting and RMT was always the dark side of D2 trading. I’ve literally just checked lobbies this week and I couldn’t find a human lobby. It’s all bots. Content creators have been farming the controversy for 2 decades even, to then join JSP because that has been the most efficent way to play the game for this 2 decades. Sad.
So, even though you don’t think a non-open trading system should always be inferior, I think you are just wrong. You can keep MG for the eternity of time, but getting offended by the existance of an equally efficient system that has no open trade is just a narrow minded take.
CoF potential is huge and would set a new baseline for future games, while not hurting traders at all.
CoF being equally fast as MG does not hurt you. You can keep MG.
But just because RNG used the be the only way to gear up outside trading, it doesn’t have to stay that way. CoF mitigating RNG more is not a bad thing and you should accept that. You are literally playing MG for that, but you are against it when it’s outside trading? This is the take I imagine only D2JSP beneficiarys would make.
The competitive player does have to go MG. Everyone else can simply choose which playstyle they like best. There are plenty of casuals in MG.
But competitive players are a small fringe of the playerbase that only cares about the most optimal and efficient way of doing things. Like farming beacon echoes and leaving before finishing over and over again.
Yes, those are CoF players that get excited about making a new character. CoF is clearly targetted to altoholics, much like most of LE’s systems are. The main playerbase EHG targets are people that like to make new characters a lot. It’s a design choice.
This is fundamentally a false statement. SSF and SSFHC players are probably one of the most competetive and hardcore playerbase. Traders also have as much, but saying CoF is not for the unltracompetitive is just false.
Lot of the hardcore SSF players are chosing to SSF not because they like to suffer more… It’s because they want to enjoy more of the game, unlike traders farming 1 thing only for 1 good drop AND because they think trading actually ruins the the fair race to world first anyhing.
In every ARPG, to this day, SSF is a challange and makes the game exponentially harder, then you claim it’s not for the competitive or hardcore palyerbase…? Uh, idk… If you don’t see the error of this logic, I can’t explain it.
But EHG had an idea to make SSF not inferior to trading once since ARPGs exist. Some people just prefer the CoF self found experience. Why shouldn’t it be equally efficient to MG? Why would that be bad?
Already explained this. With MG you can get BiS gear in a few days. If you can also get BiS gear in a few days in CoF, then you have D3 levels of drops.
Not to mention that with MG you can target the exact thing you want. Need a 2LP omnis? It’s there for sale as long as you farm for it.
However, CoF is still RNG based. So no matter how you farm, there’s always the chance you won’t find it ever.
So they can never be equal simply because one is deterministic by nature and the other is RNG by nature.
As Mike said on his stream, if you make CoF equivalent to MG it will take the fun out of CoF. So what they want to do is make the gap closer while still being fun.
Bottom line is that CoF and MG are for different playstyles. And I’m fairly certain that if EHG could have had their way, they wouldn’t even have trade in the game, despite it being in their kickstarter.
MG is a completely new and complex mechanic which does address the underlying problem.
CoF is simply more of the same and thus does not adsress the underlying problem.
That is what I understand as RNG mitigation.
CoF and MG are asymetric. So from my perspective there is no need for symmetries such as 12 Ranks, Favor, etc.
That is why I am saying that EHG missed the opportunity to come up with engaging und fun mechanics. For example:
Let us influence the odds to increase drops of specific item sub type.
Let us change 3 LPX for 1 LPY item (Cycle only)
Let us change 3 Exalted of one subtype agains 1 exalted of another subtype (Cycle only)
Let is influence or even change a Monolith in weird ways, create black holes you could jump into to finally retrieve a specific item, etc.
I am not going into the specifics of the above and whether the respective functionalities would have to be gated of not because I do not want get lost in a discussion of that.
Right now I am also seeing no incentive for a CoF player to ever play cycle.
But it is not for you to decide that, it is just what you believe or feel.
You e.g. forgot to mention all the players who need to play offline, such as myself. And then we seem to have plenty of people in this forum who also think otherwise.
If you normally need 1000 random drops to get an item and you can influence it in a way that you only need 500 random drops, that is RNG mitigation. And that is what CoF offers.
Could it be better? Sure. But it does offer RNG mitigation, which is the whole point of the faction. That’s all that RNG mitigation is.
If you can change the odds to increase drops of a specific item type, you’re already influencing them for their respective subtypes as well.
IF this were to happen, it wouldn’t be cycle only. It would be for both. Why would it be cycle only anyway?
And deterministic ways to increase LP won’t happen anytime soon, if ever.
1.3 will bring a monolith expansion, though I don’t think you’ll ever get a deterministic way to get stuff outside of MG.
It’s not. It’s for EHG and that’s what they came up with. When the poll was made, half the players didn’t want trade. And CoF was the answer to that poll.
No, that’s specifically what CoF is for. Offline and people that won’t or can’t trade.
Unlike in PoE where if you don’t trade you still get the same base drops as everyone else, in LE you have CoF so you have better drops and ways to target farm a little more.
What you’re discussing isn’t about the base functionality of CoF, it’s about reducing RNG. Which is fine, not everyone likes the same amount of RNG. But that’s a design choice by EHG.
And you can already get good gear very easily with CoF. You just have a very hard time getting BiS gear, but BiS gear isn’t needed. It’s a chase item. It’s for when you want to push the limits. So it will always be hard to get.
Everything else you can already get easily.
I think increasing the odss from 1:1000 to 1:500 is pretty much a RNG reduction as well. Just not a particularly fun one. Well for me, for you it appears to be the epitome of fun given how much you defy even the tiniest bit of determinism.
The perfect ARPG and End Game was already created it’s called D2. Trying to implement some system to change trading isn’t the answer. What keeps ARPGs alive is trading/loot hunting. Also whether you want to admit it or not RMT. If a game has RMT in it then it’s likely a good game. The Devs did something right because people want to RMT. (I’m not saying RMT is great and you should do it, just a symptom of a good game and design)
This game is worse because of MG and CoF. Especially how MG is done. It’s just in the way of players being able to play the game. Grinding favor instead of playing isn’t fun. I have 1 billion gold and great I’m out of favor. Makes me just want to uninstall really. It’s not very ARPG like. It’s a bad system. No need to try and recreate the wheel here because NO ONE is going to come up with a better idea.
People like him will never comperhend people have a different oppinion on fun than them.
Also looks like if people have fun differently than them it physically hurts them and will do anything to hinder others because then their way of fun will not be the most effective at getting items.
As I said, just another D2 supremacist. What a toxic cest of a playerbase. Sorry, it’s really annoying.
Maybe if you don’t like the fundamentals of this game, just leave and don’t try to change it to another D2. I like D2 aswell, but let’s be honest, it’s dated even if it does some stuff best. You don’t have to play anything else if you don’t like it. But especially don’t act like your oppinion is just that much superior to anyone elses, becaues this is a mentall illness at this point.
I do understand that people find different things fun. Where did I ever say otherwise?
I was merely pointing out that CoF is RNG mitigation by nature, which is a fact.
And also that CoF shouldn’t be able to trade because it was created specifically for the people that don’t want/can’t trade.
And also that CoF can’t ever be equivalent to MG simply because one is deterministic and the other is RNG.
Well, this is where you are wrong. We want to trade with friends. We want multiplayer. The exception are that play CoF solely for SSF.
EHG specifically stated they want MG and CoF to be equivalently viable options for end game. What is there to complain about wanting it to be like that? CoF can be more deterministic too without trading. BiS gear could be more reachable too. It’s just matter of finding an elegant system to get specific gear.
Then you are missing my point. Why is LE trying to change the stuff D2 does the best. Just copy that part. The best parts. Then innovate and create a great game. MG and CoF aren’t making LE a better game in this Genre. In fact it’s making LE a worse game.
LE doesn’t copy D2. You are just proving my point about D2 players.
Sorry if I offend normal D2 fans, but these kind are the most toxic in the whole ARPG genre. It’s vile. I have not seen this by any other ARPG playerbase.
That’s gifting. Already exists, probably needs tweaks for resonances drops.
You already can?
CoF IS an equivalently viable option for endgame. It just isn’t for BiS gear. Endgame is doing 300c, dungeons, pinnacle boss. You can easily do all that with CoF.
What CoF doesn’t do as well as MG is pushing 2k+ corruption (which shouldn’t be happening anyway) or reaching wave 1k+.
I agree with that. It can be more deterministic. But it can never be fully deterministic, so it will always fall behind MG for BiS.
It could. But EHG clearly doesn’t want it to. Which is why you don’t have a chance to get a 4LP red ring either as MG or CoF.
Bottom line is that this discussion is solely about being able to get BiS gear. Because getting good gear for endgame is already easy with either faction.
Well, if one is a clearly better option than the other, they are clearly not equivalent. You said it yourself.
I don’t even want BiS gear. But farming 100 hours just to not even get 1LP slams on all of my gear is just harsh. MG can do it in 20 hours. That’s it.
I reacted to you saying CoF shouldn’t be able to trade. Not openly trading, but gifting is excelent. I think some people don’t grasp why CoF shouldn’t be about single player only and should be a lot closer in gearing to MG. That’s all I’m asking for.
LP uniques is already getting into BiS gear, though. You don’t need LP uniques to do endgame. You can do 300c and dungeons with pretty much all builds using just 0LP uniques and exalted gear. And CoF delivers that in a similar way to MG. So on that level they’re equivalent.
They’re just not equivalent when you want higher quality stuff like legendaries.
I don’t have an issue with gifting. But that’s not what was being discussed. This particular discussion started because someone suggested that CoF should be able to place stuff in the AH.
Gifting is fine and I think it needs some work to make it more viable.
As I pointed before, it pretty much is for everything below legendaries.
The problem is more with people seeing legendaries as a required part of the build, rather than something extra that isn’t actually needed other than for pushing content.
Ok, I have to disagree with you here. This might be the best part to you, but it is by far not the best to everybody, which is what you are saying when you make the blanket statement. I can’t stand the trade market in any game, so I don’t participate in it. I love the fact that here I have an option.
You are still misunderstanding because you have some sort of anger issue blocking you from the conversation.
ALL ARPGS copy D2. At least they try too in some facet. Why wouldn’t you take the best stuff from D2. Being that D2 is the foundation of the genre. Of course PoE, LE and any other ARPG will copy and innovate on D2.
I think you are making this about D2 players instead of it being an ARPG discussion. This is a YOU issue.
This proves everything above. This is a you problem.
