Lets look at this first. 99% of players will never do this. 100% of players need to have easy access too trading. If you need to be farming 1k corruption to eliminate the failed Favor idea that won’t work.
It also prevents trading, the main aspect of the game. I’m not a fan of ruining gameplay because of what someone who is Botting might do. I’m sorry but it’s not the answer to Bots and it also makes trading in this game miserable.
It shouldn’t be single-gated. Devs need to stop wasting players time. If the game is good we will want to play it for 1,000s of hours. The Devs don’t need to invent time wasting mechanics to keep us grinding away.
Yes this is true and the final issue with MG as a whole. ARPGs are Trading/Loot hunting games. That is the real End Game and why D2 has lived for decades and will for many more.
All that needs to be great in an ARPG is interesting loot to chase after and trade. That is perfect End Game design. Nothing needs to be in the way of this.
TLDR : MG doesn’t make trading better. It was a good idea on paper that will never work. It will never be better than what other games have in place already with simple Auction houses or open trade.
First of all the argument of ‘having to list for ‘0’ gold’ doesn’t hold true. You never have a need to list for zero. You get rep for spending favor, not for actually selling an item.
And yes, that’s badly communicated by the system and is a reason why MG is breaking down so easily.
But favor itself is nigh worthless. You either swamp the market with items that have at least some value (idols, exalted items) or you only have the option to sit on it. Buying items is never a problem favor wise as it takes so little time to farm up for that part that it’s a joke.
No, that’s not the fault of the favor system. The most expensive items I think are some legendaries which cost 50k favor or so? But you generally don’t buy legendaries anyway, you buy uniques with LP and you buy exalted items as a base to slap onto that LP item with Julra.
That costs a total of below 20k, which you get in an hour of actively running monoliths easily, at 200 corruption.
Also @amalgamemnon is wrong with favor being a detriment for bots, it does jack to them. For that it would need scaling favor costs related to gold costs for buyers. That would actually prevent bots as currently the favor gain is roughly in line with overall exalted drops that have even any sort of value on the market while also leaving more then enough open for idols on top since they cost nigh nothing to list or buy in terms of favor.
The whole itemization farming is a ‘time wasting mechanic’.
So yes, they do.
Just not some types which have no actual functionality behind them.
Rank based market access is a very very bad mechanic by design, which is why I’m urging regularly to remove that and instead build a taxation system into MG as a resource sink (which is missing) and tie the ranks to that taxation system be reducing the overall tax amount for bought items.
Oh, it absolutely works, it’s just badly implemented.
Secondary faction resource besides Favor needs to be implemented to remove the gold usage from the market, enforcing to actively play aligned with MG to get the resource used in MG. (Allows removal of the cross-faction limitations for gear as well as favor loss and prophecy removal upon switching)
Scaling favor prices related to buying prices.
Taxation system for a resource sink.
Ranks reworked to work with said taxation system instead of access restriction.
Access restriction based on re-working favor costs. Those should relate to rarity of items as well as game-stage when they can even be acquired (like boss drop uniques exclusive to empowered timelines) while also taking their rarity into account.
If you’re not playing a build capable of comfortably farming at least 300 corruption, you’re not playing a build that’s actually viable. If you’re not playing a build that’s capable of pushing up to 1k corruption, you’re not playing a build that matters enough to worry about being able to buy and sell valuable enough items on the market that favor is going to be a problem. Being able to over-sustain favor is a reward for people who choose good builds and pilot them well.
As an aside, there are multiple builds in the game capable of pushing 2-3k corruption, although the motivation to do so is fairly limited due to the soft cap at 1k.
The main aspect of the game is not trading. Trading is something you get to do if you choose to play MG and your build is good enough to push high enough corruption. If you want to mess around with a build that has a top end potential of around 250 corruption (which is what’s required to kill all the harbingers), that’s fine, but you’re probably better off taking your niche build and playing CoF with it. Preventing botting keeps trading high quality and engaging. Trade botting would wreck the economy. This is also what they’ve done in PoE, by the way, to prevent trade botting on their new currency market, so it’s an approach that’s being adopted, and I personally think it’s super smart.
The game is great, and if you play it for 1000s of hours, Favor isn’t a barrier to you. And again, Favor isn’t a time-wasting mechanic if your build is actually good enough to justify that level of time commitment.
D2 doesn’t have an in-game player-to-player trade market, and is just a nostagia hit game with a very small, niche community compared to LE, PoE, or even D4.
Everyone list the items for 0 Gold because they are worthless because you need to try and get past the time-sink gate-keeping system to eventually trade and play the game.
Sorry but everyone who isn’t SSF CoF should just have open trading.
Except you need to grind millions of it. MILLIONS! Why? Why have this pointless gate-keeping metric in the way of playing the game. Why do we have to slam our heads against the wall grinding Favor before we get to do what we want with our free time? Why?
Ok so If I want to buy 3 weapons with 3LP for an Alt at 20k each that is 60k. Now I need to buy exalts to craft for them at 4k each. Assuming I don’t brink anything or everything that is 72k Favor for 1 slot for an Alt.
Now let me move onto the other slots. You get the picture. This is all for 1 char and 1 slot. I want to play many characters and gear them all out!!!
You are telling me I have to grind for 3 hours pointlessly before I get to craft 1 item slot for an alt?!! Are you serious! Get outta here.
This just makes me not want to make Alts and kills all motivation to theorycraft and create something fun BECAUSE THERE IS POINTLESS TIME-SINK GATE-KEEPING RUINING THE GAME.
Grinding so I can eventually play the game isn’t playing the game.
It does not work and it will never work even if you try to make changes. It just isn’t a good idea and the whole MG system itself should be ripped out of the game. Then get back to basics.
Most people won’t even get too 300 corruption either.
Core features need to be accessible too 100% of the players. Not 70%, 45% or in your scenario 1%.
99% of players will never get too 1k corruption. Most players likely won’t get too 300 corruption. A large portion of players will likely quit on Lagon.
Features in a game (like trading) NEED be work for everyone. Whether you are casual, play 3 hours a week or hard core grind. Trading needs to work for everyone on each side of the spectrum equally.
Wrong. If a player is casual who struggles in regular monoliths. They should be able to trade items they find freely and be able to save up for expensive items they want. This keeps players wanting to log in.
There is no difference between trading an item for 5,000 gold or 5,000,000 gold. Both of them are equally important to the economy.
This is irrelevant. Which I have highlighted above.
Wrong Trading is the reason why I play ARPGs like most people. t’s why we log in. We are trying to farm for items to trade. It’s a loot hunting/trading game. This is why D2 has the best End Game in ARPG history. The End Game is loot hunting/trading with super crazy fun builds. The End Game is finding chase items or trading for them.
Also ‘nah’
Since favor is tied to experience but rarity increase rises quicker then experience increase higher corruption will actually cause you to have less favor related to selling your items then on low corruption.
So it’s inverse since 1.1, the further you push the less favor you’ll have in comparison to viable sell-able items overall.
Remove this part and you’re golden.
Favor does nothing related to bots currently.
A proper bot prevention would be scaling favor prices related to gold prices, otherwise ‘no’.
Since the amount of bots is directly related to the RMT market and the RMT market is booming as you can easily shift gold around without costs (welcome 1,5 bil idols) that enables the bots in the first place.
Individual people botting is not an issue for the game.
It’s a problem though of a RMTer does it, because to make it viable they have 10… 100… 1000 accounts running bots, and that ruins a market.
So if you take care of RMT you take care of bots.
To be fair the currency trading bots were the only thing which made PoE currency trade even stomachable.
Before PoE I thought I would never say ‘botting can be great!’ but GGG did actually prove me wrong.
Before that favor also isn’t a time-wasting mechanic.
Favor starts out in abundance and ends in abundance. All favor limits is the amount of crap you can throw on the market… which is does badly anyway since spending favor is tied to reputation which pushes people into listing items heavily underpriced - since price checking is missing and at best tedious - or outright ‘0’ gold.
So the current listing mechanic being tied to favor rather then being limited in amount overall is what’s actively causing MG to dismantle itself. It’s the main cause for that.
That’s not the reason why people list items for ‘0’ gold.
There’s 2 categories for people which list for ‘0’ gold basically.
The first are those misunderstanding the system, they list nearly everything for ‘0’ to make sells, because they think sells are what helps them progress. Which is a mistake since listing itself does no matter the price you put in.
Those hence could put 10k in instead and from time to time at least sell an item and have something from it, misunderstanding costs them solely time and effort and deprives them of their reward for listing some sought after items by mistake for example.
The second ones are those not wanting to put in the effort to actively price ‘cheaper’ items right. Rare items? Don’t need it, I need rank… in it goes for ‘0’. That common affix exalted item… in it goes for ‘0’ gold. And so on.
Hence the issue here is favor cost for listing as well as favor being tied to reputation. That needs to go and be adjusted, problem solved.
Oh, not speaking against it.
In my words I’ll tell my thought about the MG favor implementation: It’s dog-shit.
Simple as that.
But you’re grinding reputation as the end-result, not favor. That’s the main premise.
Also you ‘only’ need Rank 9 to have proper market functionality, legendaries are worthless to buy/sell since by the time you reach it the vast majority of Nemesis legendaries are not valuable to you and Julra crafted legendaries are basically not sold at all.
And you have the top-tier item of the game available for your character then. 4 LP is a general ‘unicorn’ after all, so you won’t get it unless you stare for days at the bazaar.
72k for a item which can’t be improved realistically?
I would say that’s a decent deal!
Not that you’ll actually find 3 LP items on the market for most uniques
Then invest a few thousand hours!
That’s what these types of games promise.
That’s the type of dedication for such a high goal is to be expected.
If you’re not willing to put that effort in then there’s alternatives on the market which have vastly reduced times needed to achieve that. LE is not that game though.
Yes, you have to farm for 3 hours to craft a single slot with the best possible obtainable item.
Actually… you won’t give a single shit about those 3 hours since the gold-price related to the bases which are viable to craft on a 3 LP item - which costs at least 15 million gold - will be so high that to obtain the gold you’ll put in 10 times the time to even achieve it. Unless you got lucky early on and got extra gold… where do you think that came from? Someone had to farm it up, go ahead and try to do the same and see how long it takes
Yes, you’re right.
Just not the way you would want it to be.
Do you know why? Here you go: Grinding is the game, not what comes after it
Take it as you wish, that’s the point of diablo clones, to grind towards a goal, not to have a full setup of fully finished characters of all classes available at your fingertips.
LE is situated between Path of Exile and Diablo 3 in terms of itemization speed.
If you want to have a character which is nearly perfect in PoE you’ll need to put 1000+ hours into it. Heck… some people are working for 5000+ hours on a single character there, not alts… a single one. Some others have 40 characters with different ‘decent’ builds that all function and are level 100 instead. Also immense time investment.
In Last Epoch you’ll need 1000 hours to get that rooster together with amazing equipment, which is vastly less then PoE.
That’s the position of LE.
Once more, take it how you want, that is something that likely won’t change.
To be fair 20% of people never start the game and around 70% of the people owning the game likely won’t have the campaign finished.
That’s normal metrics.
It does.
It works equally not for everyone, no matter how you look at it currently.
It can work but needs vast adjustments and someone actually knowing what the fuck they’re doing economy wise… as well as a major UI rework to implement all the missing functions it should have.
That… is a factually wrong statement.
Not the ‘you’ part but the ‘most people’ part.
Show me the statistics.
Show me where you got that knowledge from.
EHG did a poll and it has a 50/50 split between people which prefer to acquire items by trade and those which wanted to rather farm it up by themselves.
It was the first ever done poll in the history of the diablo-clone genre as much as I know. So if you got any other sources go ahead and show them, I’m more then interested in that and will immediately change my stance should it prove my argument wrong.
We can agree on that and agree with what you said above.
Wrong I have to log into my main everyday to grind favor. I’m Rank 12, I’m 100 level, I can push 1k corruption, I’ve beat the pinnacle boss. I’m out of favor and need to grind for hours to get the favor I need. I then spend it all. I have to stop the fun I had planned and grind more favor.
It’s just the way it is and I’m almost done with this cycle. It really is stunting the build creation process. Then add in the awful Temporal Sanctum ontop of it another Time-gating metric. The game is just pointless grinding before you get to have actual fun.
I hope this changes because LE could be a great game if they just remove some of these pointless systems and fine tune some QoL ideas moving forward.
I’m talking about level 6 items for 1 slot. It’s top tier for a little bit till you move onto the next item.
72k favor for 1 item slot for my level 6 Alt isn’t a good deal. I’m grinding 400-500k favor before I make an Alt feels bad. I’m sorry this isn’t getting me excited to play.
There are 100’s of them! The 3LP items cost 0 gold!!! They cost 20k favor!!! I have 214 million gold I have to waste 100’s of hours grinding favor every cycle.
If I invest a few 1,000 hours I don’t want 70% of that play time to be stuff I hate doing like pointlessly grinding time-gating systems. I can just invest 1,000s of hours in another game that lets you actually enjoy and play the game and doesn’t waste my time.
At the end of the day LE is competing for my gaming time and these systems are what made me quit last time. I’ve come back for 1.1 and I want LE to be the game it could be but we still aren’t there yet.
You aren’t listening. A 3 LP Slab shield isn’t BiS. A 3LP Hazelroot isn’t BiS. These 3LP items that cost 0 gold but 20k favor. I’d like to have fun and craft these items though and enjoy creating and theory crafting. Which build creating is a strong point of LE but when I have to grind millions of favor it kills the motivation to do this.
Legendary crating needs an overhaul too because I want to slam and craft up 100’s of items and currently you can’t do that. We should unlock the Legendary forge and have it at the End of Time. We need to abandon the favor system then I can spend some of the gold I got and let us start crafting and creating new builds.
PS - I’m taking time on this thread becaues i’m tired of grinding favor so alt tabbing out taking a break. I’d like to make another Alt and craft some new items but I need more favor.
You’re grinding favor to sell items though, not to buy them.
That’s a difference.
You’re not supposed to throw the garbage exalts into the market, play the market instead.
Work smart, not hard.
That’s a prioritization issue, you can always use favor - which it is designed for and ruins the market by doing so - but you barely ever need it.
One question… why?
Why does your alt need a triple legendary unique?
Do you think that’s even intended or going out of your way to create something which is entirely not intended to exist this way even?
Sounds more like an oversight from EHG then functionality. Do legendaries not scale the minimum level requirement based on the affixes put on them?
You mean the starter gear uniques nobody can use outside of the beginning?
You won’t find ‘0’ gold uniques for the actual uniques used by characters at the end. Obviously the worthless stuff is in the market for ‘0’! Because nobody needs it!
Sorry, I imagined you would use actually used items for builds in empowered monoliths for your example.
If we start talking about actual uniques which aren’t for alt accounts but to actually finish a build the situation is different… any why would you even invest so much time into an alt for gear which you’ll out-scale in a fraction of the time invested to gather it together in the first place?
Yes, that’s intended.
Your goal there won’t happen, plain and simple.
Legendaries are created to be a sort of chase item, EHG eased vastly up on that via the Nemesis system already which reduced the lower end of legendaries into being fairly normal gear.
The higher ones though, the rare ones? Those you got no chance to even think about being eased into. They’re supposed to need dedication and time and are not needed to make a build function but solely to push a build further then baseline equipment.
I’m 100% grinding favor right now to buy items. That’s exactly what we are doing. We are buying Weavers will items, we are buying LP3 low level items. I’m not talking about End game items or any of that just the basic stuff for creating builds and playing characters.
Because it’s super fun. It’s just like when you play D2 and have a stash full of items waiting along the way of Runewords, charms, uniques.
Why do triple legendary level 0 Uniques exist? So we can use them, I hope lol. It’s called being able to enjoy an aspect of the game a lot of us enjoy called Twinking aka Min/Maxing.
I spent 40k favor bricking 2 different level 0 Slab 3LP shields cause it didn’t bring over the T7 affix. I never made another I moved on because of the favor situation. It’s just in the way of playing a core feature of the game.
No and it’s one of the most fun things you can do in LE is make a a level 6 ring like Tongue of the abberant and put T7 Health, T5 attribute and T5 crit on it.
Take phatom finger gloves that are level 6 and just put on some T7 affixes as well. Great addition for leveling gloves because of the swiftness.
I love making Twinks though in video games (Min/Maxing low lvls like in D2 or WoW), I’d like to think the Devs do too. Honestly doing this sometimes is more fun than max level gameplay. It’s a huge part of ARPGs and gaming as well. Really glad this is a part of LE but we got a bottle neck with Favor and Temporal Sanctum. It’s hard to craft up all these low lvl items.
No it’s on the market for 0 because they are common and you get favor for listing them. So then players buy them like in the above example and craft them up to have Alt sets. Then different low lvl build sets. Or to try and just create/theory craft.
No I’m just talking about my Alt but I’d love to make more Alts but again this favor situation.
Then the game just won’t be as good as it can be then. Plain and Simple. Fun for me would be slamming 100’s of items and then doing it again. No harm comes from this, you just get to create something fun and enjoy the game. It also will remove tons of items out of the game from bricking them.
The Nemesis system is a good start because it gave value too 0 LP items for people to gamble. So buying a bunch of 0 LP items and gambling on Nemesis is a fun new mechanic. Also a way for people not interested in gambling to make some serious gold as 0LP items sell for way more than 1-2 LP on many slots.
So I do applaud them with the Nemesis and at least you can maybe skip the atrocious Temporal Sanctum. That place is the worst.
So, let me get this straight because it starts to clear out a bit what’s going on there.
You’re buying low level LP items and weaver’s will items.
The first being utterly useless in time-investment versus reward it gives.
The second being the gamble of gambles you can have… albeit viable at least for a build if rolled well!
And then you complain about not having favor to buy stuff?
How about you lay off the low level LP stuff and focus on the weaver item that can actually turn out well and stay permanently with your character?
I imagine that would’ve solved your issues with favor as I don’t know how much you’ve even used up for that in the meanwhile already!
Because all uniques have LP and a actually BiS LP 3 is something which slingshots your character far far beyond the commonly achieved amount of progression?
Improving your character?
It’s the reason why people don’t buy the low level ones… since they don’t do that commonly though.
Some exceptions apply, a slab can be fantastic.
That’s hence solely a ‘you’ thing! Obviously it’ll turn expensive in both gold and favor! That’s not the normal use-case though… a fringe thing which barely any functionality is not the norm. So you can’t even make it as a use-case scenario for a general situation, it doesn’t fit the category!
Yeah, obviously you’ll have favor issues… it actually de-valuates your arguments since you base it upon that.
Fair point definitely, but that is beyond the end-game building chase. It’s once more… you’re representing already a miniscule amount of player by having over 200 million gold… which you then focus on being another miniscule type of player by focusing on mass-crafting legendaries which falls into another set of miniscule set of players which even create stuff for their secondary characters like this.
While agreed that it can be quite fun - and I’ll do it too for the simple sake of it - it is so far removed from the ‘100% of people should be able to viably use MG’ comment that I don’t know how to even comment to that further there.
Reputation you mean, yes.
And because since you do the market is flooded with ‘0’ gold listings rather then informed decisions being made based on the market state.
That’s not how a healthy market functions or even can function. It’s a detrimental mechanic of the game.
It needs dire work to be put into.
I wouldn’t argue too much with him. He’ll just end up blocking you for disagreeing with him as he’s done with me and Llama.
He doesn’t want other points of view or alternatives. He just wants the easy way.
So what you are telling me is to play another game. Which is fair. I can do that and likely will very shortly. Since there are too many systems in the way of enjoying the game currently.
I think the Devs made these low level items to use. I think they put some of these niche meme uniques and talents in the game for people to have fun! I want to explore these items (like most people) and see what I can create. (Can you agree that sounds fun?)
So the enormous time-sink before that fun happens isn’t needed and ruins the great parts of LE. I’m going to play why do we have to grind favor or Ranks.
It won’t solve my issue though. The issue is these items cost favor and we have to grind millions of favor. It’s a design issue. It’s not my issue. The solution is the Devs can fix it or I just won’t be able to invest time into making alts and creating new builds because of the favor bottle neck.
It doesn’t devalue anything I’m saying. I want to play for 1,000’s of hours but EHG has time-gating mechanics wasting 100’s of hours of time that makes me want to quit and play another game.
Players have quit because of the MG and more will quit because of MG. There are other games out there without the MG problem. It’s that simple.
It’s really not though. Lets say a new player tries the game they get too level 40. They don’t like their mastery or build or maybe they are an Altoholic. These players will be excited about making Alts and builds if key word “IF” they are able too without a badly designed time-gating system in their way.
We need to get players into the builds they are excited about creating not deterring them with pointless grinding mechanics that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GAMEPLAY.
I shouldn’t even be arguing these points and spending this much time on the forums but it’s better than grinding favor and playing LE right now. I want this game to succeed and I want to play it but this isn’t it right now. Which makes me sad. I think the Devs are good people.
The word reputation should never be in the same sentence as trading. There should be a CoF faction and there shouldn’t be an MG. I’m sorry but MG does nothing positive for this game especially when comparing it too other games.
Think I’m done for the night commenting on this thread just makes me want to quit playing LE even more. It’s making me depressed. I don’t want to be depressed right now. I’m gonna log into something and have some fun. Good luck.
Oh! Absolutely! I agree fully with you there, nothing against that.
That intention and the intention of the LP system in conjunction with the intention of the market doesn’t work out though.
MG was created in a broad manner, entailing all ‘general’ users of the game in the ‘general’ way. This usually entails progressing through the game, hence you’re doing a ‘fringe-case usage’ which falls outside that norm and isn’t included in the thought process in the first place.
That obviously can - and does as you experience - change how favor as a limiter works.
While for the ‘general’ use-case favor doesn’t basically matter and gold is the issue because of supply versus demand reasons you on the other hand use the ‘unused items’ by the majority and bypass the gold aspect entirely. Gold has no meaning for you… which only leaves one limiter, and that’s favor after all.
So yes, the obvious outcome is that favor is scarce, under ‘normal’ circumstances that couldn’t even happen, gold would be the scarcity issue, and a lot more so even.
Sure, I agree that sounds fun!
Absolutely!
But you also have to realize while I agree with you on the fun aspect… it’s absolutely not what ‘most people’ do… or even ‘many’. That’s not the common thought process of a person, it’s actually far removed from it.
It needs a large amount of curiosity to try those things out and generally people lack that, hence it doesn’t happen.
So nah, you’re quite the outlier, one which spices things up and hence positive overall, if you got a bit of entertainment skills I can recommend making videos about it, it’s good content people enjoy to see and is actually well watched for people pushing the limits of a system.
But… you’ll also have to accept that since you’re working outside the normative aspects of the system you’ll also find limits which aren’t seen by other people commonly. That’s just how it is, the complexity of the system setup otherwise would just not be possible to be handled realistically.
Given how you explained it… it’s both.
A design issue which won’t be solved as it affects too few people and a issue of working outside the norms of the system in the first place.
Which isn’t negative, just different mind you.
Agreed, albeit primarily for quite different reasons then you state. Those will have to be fixed first, the system adjusted accordingly until it actually works before yours can even be addressed.
Oh, they’re not hindered! Their optimally possible time to create those is just reduced.
Imagine the game without MG at all, it doesn’t stop ‘Altoholics’ as you name them to do that exact thing. You just take it a step further.
Altoholics are generally a rare breed in the capacity you mention, most people first play through the game until swift progress tapers off before moving to another character, so that gives a lot of time to diversify acquired gear and then get into the next character. So yeah, it’s not even remotely ‘many’ people still.
Agreed.
And disagreed.
It has its place.
It can do it well.
EHG just messed it up.
I’ve looked into the itty bitty details of such systems in a variety of games, I’m a trader at heart. I like markets. I like how people cause markets to behave. I like how different mechanics change markets from real existing ones.
I’ve dabbled successfully in day-trading for a short while since I was curios, done AI-supported day-trading as well in small capacity and more.
While having not professionally learned the terminology of markets I nonetheless know about pattern recognition and how to use it as well as the basic differences between realizing what a bull and bear market is, how to (ab)use them and so on.
While my ideas might have some minor flaws in them I’m fairly sure that the core ideology behind them is generally solid.
I’ve stated it fairly often by now what MG needs to function with nigh guarantee.
Alternative currency to detach MG and CoF properly and remove the warranted need for the cross-limitations to a vast degree. Also to re-introduce the already implemented gold-sink function of Arbor as a actually used mechanic for MG people.
Taxation as a resource sink.
Scaling favor prices related to the buying price.
Ranks not limiting access but working on enhancing the experience by reducing the quantity of resources removed from you through the taxation system.
Search functionality rework (missing affixes implemented, sorting by roll range, roll-range search, multi-affix search, conditional search, live-search and so on)
Quick price-check function outside of MG to make informed decisions on even using the market.
Listing amount limitation instead of favor usage as a limiter.
Quick re-list functionality.
Those 8 points alone already create a solid and stable market. Supply/demand is handled properly there, resources sinks are available, RMT becomes nigh impossible by using MG, progression rate aligns with scarcity of good. Informed market decisions and large removal of ‘0’ gold listings which are a general detriment for a healthy market. It creates a more fluid environment and enforces closer margins between similar items which creates a overall framework.
All which is missing currently.
Might’ve forgotten a point actually… but those should already do the trick.
It’s not so much a “deflection” as it is “accurate”.
I’m not saying I disagree with you on this, but do you have any data to back it up, or is this just a bald assertion?
Says who?
Again, where are you getting these statistics? Or are you just making it up to buttress your point?
Again, says who?
That’s not current game design and doesn’t seem to be EHG’s game design intent, so this is just your opinion, and means just as much as anyone else’s, which is “not much”.
This is just nonsensical. That’s like saying buying a home and buying a donut carry the same value in the real world economy, which is ludicrous on its face.
Only it’s not, because it means that there are multiple options that are capable of pushing beyond the soft cap, so it’s not a matter of builds being accessible as an excuse for people not pushing higher than the 300 corruption initial soft cap or the 1000 corruption top-end soft cap.
Where are you getting the statistics that “most people” play ARPGs because of trading to the point that it’s “the reason they log in”? You’re just projecting your ideal situation onto everyone else.
Also, D2 having hte “best End Game in ARPG history” is an opinion, and debatable at best. I don’t call “mindless spamming the same area over and over again to kill trivially easy mobs to farm for incredibly rare drops” a great endgame.
To be fair they correlate well with data from GGG in terms of player retention and reached content.
Since retention rate of LE is vastly worse in 1.1 compared to PoE (understandable since the amount of difference from 1.0 to 1.1 is not much, the economy is already screwed and overall content is far less) we can go with a few other markers and see if that’s at least likely.
The first would be that we can for example see the end-boss of PoE ‘Maven’ has been killed by 2,1% of people playing that game once in their lifetime.
Since their leagues are 3 months long and we know that fairly dedicated players usually stay between 1-2 months of that time (with few for the whole duration) we can also see that between 5-10% of people are the ‘intense’ players which tend to push far or at least stay long. This correlates with Last Epoch as well (for now with the limited dataset we have).
That can be read out of the Steam database.
1k corruption is roughly similar to an end-goal for some people as would be killing Maven in Path of Exile, given the overall player numbers we’ve seen hence in 1.0 and 1.1 for now as well as the player numbers over time - for now - that could actually come close to the proclaimed 99%
Sure, could be a bit less… but it’s really not much.
Any economist. A market is based on fluidity of goods, hence people need to be able to access it to acquire goods and create a demand which other people hence supply.
Which is messed up in Last Epoch since reputation enforces a artificial over-supply and hence destroying the entire supply/demand chain on the lower spectrum. Together with the unlimited listing ability it causes the market to not allow newcomers to make profit since longer-staying players would shift their listings to valuable items and hence creating a scarcity in the lower area which is filled by newer people this way. Instead what happens is that older players also fill that space and newcomers can’t gather resources needed to acquire and progress viably into the later stages of the market with the more expensive items.
Actually he’s right there.
High value trades get done less in quantity.
Low value trades have a higher quantity and turnover rate.
If one is missing then the market topples down since the high value trades can’t gather the required funds since people generally do vast amounts of low value trades which then accumulates to allow people to do high value ones in the first place. It’s the reason as to why the global markets are moving towards a grand recession world-wide, this balance being skewed. We’re waiting since a good 30 years for the bubble to finally burst and partially it did already (as seen for example with the Evergrande collapse in China having world-wide ripple effects) which revealed the corruption ongoing underneath and still having effects now.
Economy is separate from game design… you can create a economy in your game but you still have to follow real world economic rules to make it work. If you don’t then it fails automatically and can ruin your whole player experience along with it. It’s a very dangerous and intricate system which can easily be ‘done wrong’. Diablo 3 was a prime example of utterly ignoring several market rules overall before they changed the initial system for example, but they over-reached a lot more then LE does. D3 was greed-based and badly done, LE’s system is just badly done.
