Yes, I know what you meant.
The goal is to level MG rep as fast as possible. Gold is irrelevant for that purpose.
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But gets the same amount of experience roughly as someone taking it slow. Itâs just a manner of efficiency there and access point.
For example a âJulraâs Obsessionâ can only be gained in Rank 3 of the Temporal Sanctum. So to get a baseline for when it should be available - and hence tie it to favor cost - EHG can go ahead and choose a build which is the closest to their wished for balance⌠then have a few people try and reach that without major struggles to beat the dungeon and see when it happens.
According to that the favor price is picked, multiplier attached and you have a rough baseline for the minimum favor range needed.
So itâs not about how quickly you actually reach the content, itâs just about a baseline to not allow someone to gain access to any items at a time it wouldnât even be possible to have it in the first place⌠or extremely unrealistic.
Yeah, but thatâs the other side of the same coin, too early.
Should you really be able to buy a T24 item during campaign⌠even if only theoretically?
True, it can be the case⌠but whatâs the difference to the current state?
Currently people have no way of knowing when their next upgrade will happen at all, itâs very unclear in most cases and the time difference in progression speed is a natural phenomenon for this type of game setup to happen. You canât ever avoid it with any method currently available.
So unless EHG finds the golden grail of diablo-clone progression beyond the line where it simply starts to take a looong time to find anything⌠that probably wonât happen.
An economy on the other hand always provides an option to get better gear with a clear-cut way to achieve it, put in enough effort and you have it, luck or not⌠provided the item is available at least.
Because itâs the 'I donât know if Iâll drop 3 upgrades or 0 in the next month situation, always, since itâs a sole multiplier.
Exactly! If properly set up
Which is after all⌠the whole argumentation here 
Leading back again to access at proper timing, hence people even interacting with the mechanic in the first place, hence even the possibility of getting reasonable supply of higher-end gear of any kind.
Except when my meta rush-rush build gets to the point they are strong enough to beat T3 Julra ⌠theyâll have less XP gathered. Why would you punish me for being extra-good at the game?
Theoretically, you canât equip it because youâre not high enough level.
Itâs why my Necromancer Iâm currently levelling isnât running around in all T7 and/or double Exalt gear.
But that uncertainty is part of the ARPG genre. The entire purpose of Trade isnât to guarantee progression, itâs to convert the RNG of getting good drops for other people, to good drops for you. That âprovided the item is availableâ is the entire point. You trade gear progression for someone else with gold to buy your own progression.
The problem with reasonable supply isnât as much tied to progressing as MG, itâs having reasons to play once youâre at level 100 and nothing you suggested actually helps that, except maybe, potentially making it slightly more interesting to level in MG. But once people are high level and âfinishedâ with the main part of their build, you are still gonna see those people stop playing, regardless if theyâre MG or CoF.
Now, this is especially a problem in Legacy MG right now, because cycles favor playing only a few builds, and that is when trade is the strongest. Over time, as people âde-syncâ from cycles they may convert to Legacy MG, and some players will potentially use existing characters to speedfarm currency for their next alt, thus keeping trade alive more consistently over time, but I doubt itâll ever be as busy as Cycle MG has been in the last month. Then again, I fully expect Cycle Bazaar to empty out over the next few months as the Cycle players will stop playing more and more until 1.1
Choosing a meta-build is being âextra goodâ?
That makes no sense.
You chose an OP build, you already have inherent upsides, would say âdeal with itâ beyond that
Itâs not like youâve got a high level of personal player skill and knowledge about optimizing your progression⌠you just have⌠a strong build.
There had to be at least 1 person in the game to think of that âOP meta buildâ without it being meta. But to have an incentive to think of new builds, players need to feel rewarded, or at least not punished.
And Iâm over 2k hours in, so yeah, I can make a better build than most new players.
But if your argument has come down to âplease punish people playing better builds than meâ, I no longer see a benefit to continuing this discussion.
Unfortunate, because for a while it was actually interesting.
Itâs not going to be perfect but both factions have itâs pros and cons and are available to everyone.
Yes but it is less opened as to just having an automated market flooded. With the old school trade, you can pinpoint sellers a lot easier, if they wanted to. Sellers are a problem but the root of the problem is how it is obtained, through various cheats, expliots which players use too.
If they can control how much gold is being pumped out and how much is being cleaned, sellers would have a way less impact than it does. Lightless arbor is a great idea to gold sink that but weâre at the point where that cost does close to no impact. Sure, tehy can raise it to cost 10-20-50 mil a run and it will still get used and abused by cheaters or rmah but at least it will slowly and effective clean out and lower the gold on server.
It still feels the same to me and I do nothing wrong. Iâm not the type of guy who likes babymode buy everything you want. Itâs effective yes but boring AF to me and I have zero respect for people using it because itâs stupidly easy to get everything you want that way.
Thatâs why to me MG isnât viable at all. Sure everyone can see this differently and thatâs fine.
Does that mean you have way more respect for me than for CoF players? 
I am in MG but Iâve only ever bought half a dozen yellow items for level 40-50ish to fill holes in gear. And then I continue farming endgame as MG (so with a much crappier drop rate).
Na I think CoF and ressonance is the way to go while ressonance is still realy bad to aquire. MG is far to easy from my point of view.
Rewarded to search out stronger interactions rather then more enjoyable ones mechanically?
Build variety is not supposed to make you find specifically broken or unintended overperforming ones⌠thatâs a side effect of the complexity of the system, not something even remotely intended.
What happened to people playing something because they enjoy the feeling, the looks, the style of it? A build is the personal âflavor of the monthâ for everyone. Enjoy being a mage? Be one, sling elemental stuff around! A strong fighter, be that, slash enemies apart or slam them with a hammer for example.
Thatâs why Iâm hoping for many many more uniques in the direction of Jelkhorâs Blast Knife, the resulting build isnât specifically powerful because of the awkward mechanics⌠but heck itâs fun to have a melee build with basically no range suddenly shoot out huge lightning blasts.
Is it OP? Nah, the opposite⌠but itâs fun for me personally to play for the style.
But thatâs not the point.
Also you donât get âpunishedâ but instead arenât specifically allowed even more upsides then already existing. The upside of a strong build choice is to progress quicker then expected⌠so why should you double-dip into that through the market on top? That would make it even stronger in terms of progression.
The task of the devs is to provide an experience which is soooomewhat similar for people on how they get through the game. Disparity is a automatic result, a bit of variance is also fine⌠too large variance though - either too strong or too weak - is another topic in itself and shouldnât happen, it causes issues.
So if a build vastly overperforms and hence would get access to specific items long before they should⌠why is that bad to be slightly reigned in by the market acquisition rate?
We have the other side of the coin as well⌠thereâs underperforming builds as well out there! They would get access to the market when theyâre not as far along in the game yet, bringing them a bit more in line with others.
How your build feels doesnât change after all.
But I can throw the ball right back there as well.
If your argument is âI want to always be superior to other playersâ then thatâs also not quite a way to have a conversation, is it now?
Overbalancing hurts the game.
Underbalancing does.
Not providing limitations makes it likely something goes massively out of line.
So⌠provide limiters which donât change the feel of the game majorly and it at least somewhat balances itself.
If you join MG and donât use MG, then MG is actually hard mode
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I was also kinda pissed at the grind. It goes twice as fast if you do this.
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Choose a mono with corruption as high as possible while still able to rush the objective.
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Get all the books in the first couple of branches.
3, If you donât see any books, reset corruption by 10 at the center.
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Rinse and repeat.
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If corruption is getting too low for your liking just rush to Shade picking up all books on the way.
If you join MG and donât use Mg then you are for sure a very⌠special person
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Then they should go the D3 route and tell us exaclty what builds weâre allowed to play?
If finding a strong âworking as intendedâ skill combo, I should not be forced to keep running the treadmill because my build is above average in output.
For some people, finding that minmax is the fun. Are you actively saying that such a playstyle is the âwrong wayâ to play ?
Also, Jelkhorâs is actually a pretty strong build, especially if you can find some LP on them.
Except you are punishing me for getting there quicker. If getting to the point you can kill T4 Julra is in your progression path worth, letâs say, crafting a rare 2LP chest, getting there sooner means I am unable to reap the benefits from my efforts. I must now do repeat content for XP because I find a stronger build. That is punishment.
ABSO-FUCKIN-LUTELY NOT
Streamlining experiences is what kills a lot of games. Player retention requires alternative experiences. Itâs why BG3 has options in its Campaign. Itâs why people are worried Ward is simply too strong for everyone. The lack of diverse experience is exactly why people are not playing their hig end characters for long enough for you to see their drops on the Bazaar.
It changes implicitly because I feel it in gear progression how long it takes to move forwards. I spent some time in beta particularly trying to make meme builds work. Having them on rails would destroy the fun out of trying to make them work. And yes, that includes Roots of Vithrasil, the Gaspar set, and many other WTF-items that I actually got to 200 corruption with.
But I donât want to always feel more superior to other players. Thatâs why Iâm advocating to let the streamers and early cycle rushers do their thing! Heck, if I actually wanted to be stronger, Iâld play MG atm rather than CoF.
If I have a strong build, I want to be able to see it advance quickly. If my build idea is shitty, I want my shitty build to be slower than the meta. The entire fun for me is to find a way to make that build not-shitty!
By limiting the existence/progress of âOPâ and shitty builds, significantly changes the feel of the game for me. Because then there is no balance, there is only meta and pre-chewed builds. It wasnât fun in Diablo 3, PoE or Diablo 4. Diversity over homogenization.
Whatâs with the extreme hyperbole there?
I said broken and unintended mechanics are those⌠broken and unintended.
It comes from the complexity of the system.
The complexity creates options which through their combinations under- or overperform vastly.
Itâs inherently impossible to fully balance every single combination of every single skill.
Itâs a side-effect of the system, not an intended effect.
If the devs wouldâve a way to perfectly balance for every possible situation beforehand then you can be damn sure they would take that route every second of the day.
What the system is intended for is to provide large variety in playstyle and not large variety in power.
Thatâs a very very important difference.
Oh, absolutely fun!
But complaining about removing power disparity between builds doesnât relate to that at all.
The only thing relating to that is ânot wanting your powerful build to be affected since you wanna stay on the topâ.
Has not a single thing to do with those actively enjoying the strive for the most powerful build available⌠because if the situation changes they wouldâve once more a reason to strive for it since itâs another one now 
Punishment implies loss.
Youâre not loosing anything.
Youâre just not rewarded before anyone else.
If your build can tackle content earlier then that itself is the reward, the economy should have to do jack-shit in relation to build power. It has to provide exactly zero disparity while build power has an inherent disparity.
Also⌠if you kill T4 Julra early you can also definitely go an finish those non-empowered monoliths beforehand
Extreme disparity does the exact same.
Your point?
How often do I need to repeat this statement in different words?:
Neither too little nor too much balancing is allowed a diablo-clone*
Nobody gives a shit if builds are 40 or 50% stronger, people should absolutely give a shit if theyâre 1000% stronger for example.
Absolutely fine!
Great if more people follow this example!
Amazing for core progression!
For an economy the death of it.
Hence we need to differentiate between âpersonal character progressionâ and âaccess limitationsâ which we already have currently in vastly worse effect in the game.
So what are you advocating against?
If you currently need Rank 8 for a rare unique with LP you need around 300k rep to achieve that if I remember right.
What Iâm advocating for is to shift the whole mess of a system onto individual items instead of ranks, which is the exact same type of limitation existing but instead allowing to directly adjust it towards the specific expected acquisition stage. So you can get your crappy 3 LP âThe Kestrelâ before level 100 while that 3 LP rare boss unique will be roughly that base-price in favor instead.
So you get your stuff generally earlier there.
And no, not all stuff⌠obviously the rare uniques without LP wouldnât be limited behind 5k favor in Rank 3 as they currently are, so those would be available later.
Hence simply a system which provides a better access rate overall then this mess we have now.
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