I am playing Paladin, 9000 armor(76% reduction), resistances capped, 70% block with 50% effectiveness, 2.6k life, 60% capped endurance with threshold 1000, lot of armor aplied to damage over time(60% I think)), crit avoidance not 100% but I have 92% reduced damage from crit bonus, lot of life leach and leech rate… … basically I prioritized everything for tankiness and still damage is very ok, I play a Rive build. and:
on arena wave 154 a mob blow a fire dmg and killed me in 1 second from full life, not having any chance to react.
so, everybody should play in this game Super Mario Bross style? e g. one shoot the mobs or avoid all attacks ? yes, saw a video from Widijo who played rogue and was shoothing to mobs from off-screen, not even seeing them(had I pet that kept the mobs away)…
but, just for devs to know, playing melee you need to go to the mob and hit him you know?
yes, I have 0 ward, tried ward builds also but for Paladin there is no chance to keep high ward during fights.
what is the idea for melee in this game?
EDIT: Might be there is even a bug with Fire+Physical ca,bo damage from mobs. I am always one-shooted but this combo, both in arena and monoliths corruption ~230.
EDIT2: big problem seems to be those mobs like Tundra Stalker whoo are doing Damage Over Time w8th their breath attacks, 4 attacks per second!!! therefore armor do not mitigate their attacks and player just get 1 shot in high diffocultues. not even using lot of Armor applied to DoT modifier would not help cause nan not stack too much of that in items.
Wudijo also has a melee build, also without ward, and he has no problems clearing high corruption.
But yes, if you’re playing melee, once you reach high enough corruption/arena wave, you have to jump around a lot to avoid ranged missiles. You need a movement skill that lets you close in on enemies. That’s how melee works in pretty much every game.
In an infinitely scaling content, eventually things will one shoot you. This makes it harder for melee. It means you have to play more defensively (not talking about defensive stats, but defensive gameplay).
Did I miss the passive that allows ranged classes to not have to avoid dmg? Sure it’s a bit tougher as melee, due to the proximity, and EHG is looking into it. Some suggestions giving melee addition DR… but we’ll see what they come up with. But you aren’t the first to mention this (damn Search is still broken in these forums apparently), and it’s something EHG is aware of and looking at.
not really, in lot of aRPGs, e.g
Diablo 3, I can create a melee build that survive everything. yes, damage will be soo low that you will not be able to clear content.
I have a movement skill, but had no time to even react, was in a fight woith easy mobs and that one come to be and blew fire → one shoot dead. anyway, I do not want to kiie every mob…
Thou canest hang a bunch of smites and more on the lunge :)) May be thou shouldest reconsider thy build. But yes, it happeneth that ye are one-shotted even from off- screen and ye don’t have time to react.
The father (and still best) of the ARPG Diablo (1-2) NEVER needed a hitkill to be immersive and difficult. This stupid idea is something from Korean games where everything is small and can’t last more than 1 second. (I’m sorry but this doesn’t satisfy anyone). That’s why D2 is a timeless and immortal game and this game is just another generic game that is already dying. AN RPG has ROLE PLAY for a reason, when dodging and blocking are MY CHARACTER’S status I expect HIM to dodge and block NOT ME. even more so in a game where movement is the mouse click. This game has one of the WORST gameplay of all the ARPGs I’ve ever played, it has the worst boss fights and a lot of this is due to the fact that you’re not fighting against enemies but against little marks on the ground. This stupid idea of trying to make everything a souls is stupid, this type of gameplay is boring and people quickly abandon it, OR they find mechanics to IGNORE them, that’s why the league is dominated by a build that tanks everything or by kills everything before any minion can cast anything. D2 you have healing you have 20+ potions and the fights last you feel your life draining away you face the boss face to face feeling its power without it killing you in an idiotic way, without marking 50 zones on the ground, without needing to summon trillions of minions or all the time. rangeds have to learn to kite the boss, meele find gaps to tank, heal or steal life. Here none of this works, everything ends in a millisecond, your life has only 2 statuses, full or dead, this is not an ARPG.
You seem not to remember D2 right. I still play D2 to this day. And melee builds in Hell have to constantly move around avoiding ranged attacks, like the lightninng wisps in Act 4. And it’s you that has to do this. The character doesn’t do it for you, other than the Amazon (which can actually get locked into evade/dodge animation, but that’s another issue).
You also seem to forget Diablo and the uber bosses. If you face tank Diablo when he does the lightning hose or the firestorm attacks, you don’t last enough time to use all your potions.
Also, games evolve. If LE was just a copy of D2, why would anyone play it instead of D2?
I agree with most everything you said, but Wudi is not playing a pure melee build. He’s playing a minion build. You might think this is a tedious distinction (or that there’s no distinction at all), but they’re not the same thing. I’ve watched him play his Beastmaster on stream multiple times. It’s a strong build, but his pets buff him, contribute to damage, and run interference/tank for him constantly.
All that aside, I’d still argue it’s not really fair to expect everyone who plays melee to be at world-first streamer levels of skill. Wudi is an outlier.
So, what EHG said was that it was more difficult to play as melee because you’re closer to the situation, and thus have to react faster to avoid certain types of damage/CC. In other words, melee has a higher skill cap.
There are various types of close-ranged AoEs and other mechanics that disproportionately affect melee. There’s also the obvious advantage of a ranged mastery who can kite around or through damage versus a melee who is simply forced to stop attacking and run away.
When it comes down to it, I’d say my only complaint is that it’s simply not fun to spend more time dodging than attacking. I’m all about player skill being a factor, though.
One of the most dangerous things in higher corruption/arena are DOTs. You probably had ignite stacks on you that are not mitigated by block or armor since blocking a hit is still a hit that will apply DOTs.
My suggestion would be to roll Cleanse all Ailments on Potion Use on your belt. You only need tier 1 so you can seal it.
Yes, but this is the same in pretty much every single ARPG. It’s very hard to make a pure melee build work properly. Even PoE struggles with this (for a VERY long time the only melee bulds that actually were competitive were ones that used AoE attack skills, or skills that, even though they were melee, had a range).
If you make the enemy AoE weaker then ranged classes also benefit from it, so nothing changes.
Ultimately, if you have infinite scaling content (which includes infinitely enemy damage scaling) you’ll reach a point where everything one shots you. And ranged characters will still be able to do this content (just kill everything before they can attack) and melee won’t because they can’t get near.
This is an inherent flaw in melee playstyle (this is also apparent even in D&D).
nope. I have a melee Zeal Paladin in D2R that has absolutely no problem with anything. e.g. in D2 you can bump ligthing res above 75%, I have around 85% I thing.
very well said, all the comment. actually aRPGs veterans will get really mad with this game because devs think that there shall be unavoidable damage, for some reason, can not understand it…
Even baal in hell won’t kill you in one attack if you have your resistances capped. You know that, walking, kiting, recovering and coming back, that’s ok, that’s not the point here, the point here is that EVERYTHING is a little mark on the ground everything kills you instantly, D2 you can use about 20 potions before you die You feel the weight of the fight. The skills of the boses, even the strongest ones, are specific and do not delete you without a reaction. Here you have 10 defensive layers and any white mob kills you out of nowhere with no time to react
D2 was easy once you had reasonable gear. The only difficulty in that game was when you first transitioned from Nightmare to Hell and your gear wasn’t good. I fail to see how noone remembers D2 as being mostly mindless farming so you can roll alts.
Modern ARPGs have established one shots because no one wants their players capped on power. If a boss can’t kill you in 1 hit and you can leach, regen, recover your life instantly what’s the point to any fight? It sounds like you just do not like modern ARPGs.
I wonder if you played something, warrior has always been one of the best classes in D&D, barbarians dominate the game in terms of damage and survival since AD&D, dualwild ranger was so strong in AD&D and 3.x that they had to make a nerfed version to encourage people to make a bow. remember that D&D your magic sucks if you are attacked, cast or use a bow but it causes attacks of opportunity, EVEN the wizard’s curve is extraordinary, he is not a match for a paladin (maybe in the terrible 5e it is)
I agree. However, I do think there are some easy things EHG can do to make melee better. I don’t expect them to ever be balanced with ranged, though. Nor would I want melee to be easier, per se.
That said, I do think close-ranged AoE/splash damage can be balanced better than it is now. Close-range damage should be punitive for ranged. The same way ranged damage is inherently punitive for melee. But melee shouldn’t be overly punished by both.
These games are defeated by small goldenfish because everything is mere mechanics, PoE tried to go in that direction and we saw builds with 700 hp killing boses with trap without putting up a second of fight. D3 is the PERFECT example of how stupid this idea is (don’t I need to explain here the huge failure and the bad joke that is d3?)
As I said, people confuse gameplay with difficulty, ALL souls like are MEDIOCRE games easily beaten by a programmed plc, the fights are little dances where you memorize the dodge point, you win, they realize how annoying and tedious they are and never come back, so they are 2 week games. ARPGs are games to be repeated, and repeated where you expect a MINIMUM of progress in your build where it grows progressively and not in an idiotic jump from 0-100. OR WORSE where itemizing build doesn’t make any difference, if it doesn’t matter how much you build defense because all that matters is walking and dodging marks on the ground, the game WILL REGRESS to goals where everything is just DAMAGE as quickly as possible, THAT’S what makes it coherent games Bad taste JOKES that are not sustainable over time, this type of game tends to powercreep (like d3-d4) which is also not sustainable over time.
The game doesn’t have to be a face tank, but fights have to be immersive and interesting, I want to FIGHT AGAINST the boss not against a mark on the ground. increase life (a lot) decrease regens, make fights last and be interesting and not a premature ejaculation for people addicted to endophina.
this is very wrong. that is Super Mario Bross man…
“capped on power”… look at Diablo 3 for example, you can “capp on power” and tank without dying Greater Rift 150, BUT, you will not finish in time the rift. do you know what I mean? you xan not capp in power in D3, you need to balance the build for your playstyle. in LE? Super Mario fast runners(look on youtube, really fun videos eoth Mario fast runs) will win with 0 defense. Oh, but wait, that is not capped in power if you win woth 0 defense?
I don’t particularly like the Soul aspect of LE, where you have to dodge certain attacks but this is the trend in recent years due to unlimited scaling of creep’s power. I am pretty sure if there’s unlimited scaling in D2, melee builds would suffer more at the end too.
For starters they can reduce some of the bs melee faces. The amount of cocaine that had to be used before deciding it was a good idea to have Smoldering Lithracs (the stupid flame dinos) proc a fire aoe when hit without a cooldown is amazing. I wonder if that dev survived the overdose. They just shit fire out everywhere. No counterplay. I only fight them if i have an invulnerability source up.
What really bothers me though is nothing exists in the game that does that to ranged players. These monsters are complete pushovers for ranged players.
