Yeah excuse me for being so sure about that, you’re in fact right, I did some more research. Thanks for letting me know! Gonna revert back to Strength then, in return cut some Armour% on the Boots and Shield in favor of more Health and Poison Resist!
1 Like
Hey, nice build. Playing a bleed Paladin myself although always switching between Warpath and Rive as I hav spinned too much in my PoE history and don’t like the channeling style anymore 
General question for your build (and most bleed builds I saw here): Do you really think undisputed is the best weapon? I can see it as a good start but as far as I see and experienced so far a Nagasa Scymitar can feel a lot better and adds some additional survivability due to the far faster attack rate. Currently running one with T5 inc Phys, T5 attack speed, T5 bleed chance and T2 life on hit.
Here is my current Rive setup and Gear if you want to take a look: Paladin, Level 100 (LE Beta 0.8.2g) - Last Epoch Build Planner
Like I said, a really good Exalted weapon should be even better than Undisputed, but that’s obviously pure RNG and you’ll on average probably see 10 Undisputed drop before you get a decent Exalted weapon with the right stats on it. But I would definitely go with a Welryn Axe base if possible, the extra Bleed chance is much stronger than a bit of DoT%.
Warpath is actually completely replaceable, as long as you find a good substitution to the Wings of Argentus. I plan to make a version of the build using Vengeance soon, as this skill can provide a ton of hits thanks to its Skilltree, while also buffing defenses which might be necessary when losing Wings of Argentus.
I actually progressed this build much further, I have an even tankier version which deals more than double the damage as well and I plan to make it the #1 Sentinel build in Arena. I already got past wave 300 first try with very unoptimized gear and incorrect blessings so I’m optimistic that I can do it 
I will post the updated build once I made it very far in the Arena.
Are you sure about the weapon base? Although you get up to 30% bleed chance you lose also some attack speed. Nagasa is 18% faster and this also means a lot for applying bleed.
Assuming you have ~400% bleed chance you will only get 7.5% more damage from this implicit and even less if you have more bleed.
Comapring to this my attack speed goes from 122 to 157 when swapping to a Nagasa which yields an increase of 28.6% more attack speed. Which increases survivability also and is not including the DoT implicit at all.
Hah, interesting. I never stop learning apparently. Yeah I didn’t factor in that Swords have higher base Attack Speed at all. This should definitely make your base better indeed!
Be careful about my suggestions because I come from PoE and are very new to damage scaling in this game. But at least this is how I assume it should work.
If you have many different sources to increase DPS you should not focus on one but on multiple. To my knowledge this is not true for Phys damage, dot damage or pyhs dot over time as they are all summed up and applied at once. But attack rate should still be an independent factor as well as bleed chance.
I’m not fully sure about bleed effect but I assume it is an individual factor which is applied multiplicative on its own.
Bleed Duration is another unsolved question for me and I haven’t found an answer yet. Does it spread out the damage over more time or is it its own multiplier and just “adds” additional ticks with the same damage at the end?
No I’m 99,99% sure that your weapon would vastly outdamage an Axe. I have in total about 500% chance to bleed on hit, 30% more or less would definitely make much less of an impact than in total about 30-40% more attack speed. I’m pretty sure that even a well rolled non-exalted Scimitar is better than Undisputed.
Regarding Bleed Duration, it indeed adds additional ticks to each stack of bleed, so it is a very valuable stat to have because the damage scaling is basically multiplicative. The Relic provides up to 50% (why I consider it irreplaceable in this build) and you can get more via Large Idols and Helmet/Chest affixes. Another multiplicative scaling method is “Bleed Effect” which you can also get via Helmet/Chest affixes and from the Paladin passives, which is basically giving you more Bleed damage %.
I’m not fully conviced about bleed duration yet. Seareched the dev-trhread on discord about it and found this comment from Mike:
[16:28] NᵃCˡ*:* Ok thanks one more thing with bleed duration does that have the innate byproduct of increasing damage of the bleed by making it last longer? Or simply to allow for more stacks to accumulate
[16:29] Mike W*:*Just allows more to accumulate
This would imply that it does not increase bleed damage.
Another source which sould increase our dps further are additional hits. As far as I understand the game each individual hit can procc bleed. This holds even true for
procc’ed skills/hits. This means that adding things like Manifest Strike or Divine Bolts on hit should indirectly yield another new somehow “more” multiplier.
Edit: Just got a confirmation from Mike on Discord: “Duration changes do not change the total damage of a single application of bleed. It just stretches the damage out if you increase the duration.”
Another source which sould increase our dps further are additional hits. As far as I understand the game each individual hit can procc bleed. This holds even true for procc’ed skills/hits. This means that adding things like Manifest Strike or Divine Bolts on hit should indirectly yield another new somehow “more” multiplier.
Yeah that’s what I’m doing in my new version. Temporal Cascade out of the Warpath tree is also pretty good, especially in Arena. It’s not considered Meele hits so it doesn’t benefit of the 200% out of the Paladin tree, but it does from the regular Bleed on hit modifiers and because it proccs often and is AoE I really like it.
I’m quite shocked that you yet again teach me better regarding the Bleed duration, but on the other hand this only helps me to make my build even stronger and efficient I honestly don’t see a reason to have Bleed Duration now and will further adjust my build accordingly. Thanks!
Do you skill Counter Attack in your new version? Especially in Arena it’s like 5 additional AoE hits per second.
thinking about creating an excel sheet right now to make some more accurate DPS calculations. As even hitting the dummy does not yield very accurate results. Firthermore it would be possible to calculate the best percentage of resistance shred needed for individual attack rates.
About bleed duration: On chest and helmet it comes alognside inc physical damage which still makes it quite valuable but maybe strength is than superior. 8 strength yields 40 inc damage for Rive/Vengeance and Warpath alongside some additional armour. Could be a better investment especially in arena. In Echos longer bleed duration can provde a better sustain while walking through the map.
Thanks for the build Azno, I’m going to give this a go as I rarely play Sentinels (too much love for Primalists).
I have very few Idols for him but hopefully can gear up whilst levelling.
I tried it, but got rid of it again. The mobs that are troublesome in Arena aren’t the small guys which hit frequently and then in return get hit by Counter Attack, but the ranged mobs and the single big guys like Siege Golems, where the passive becomes pretty useless. Also with the changes I now made by replacing the Relic, I can put 4 points in the more damage node in Warpath due to having more cost reduction, I wouldn’t worry about damage at all anymore. I did put 1 point into Axe Thrower though because it’s another on hit proc.
Enjoy! Though as I said, I am currently building an even better version so stay tuned 
Thanks! will do. I’m moving house next week so playtime is going to be very limited for a while. Trying to get some play in while I still have the chance and this looks like something fresh and enjoyable.
I did some testing a few days ago and increased bleed duration makes 1 stack of bleed do more total damage (because it lasts longer doing it’s x damage per sec for longer). @EHG_Mike is wrong in that regard.
I’d assume that ailments are displayed as doing X damage over Y seconds but coded to do x/y damage per second, so if you increase the duration you’re getting that x/y damage per second for Z seconds which results in a higher damage from the stack.
While being able to stack more bleeds is a thing, it’s irrelevant for any damaging ailment except poison since poison has an innate uncapped resist shred. So 5 stacks allows each stack to do 10% more damage per tick (2% shred per stack on bosses), but 10 stacks allowes each stack to do 20% more damage per tick.
1 Like
So TL;DR, do you think Bleed duration is worth it or no?
Depends what the choice is. In general, yes 'cause it’s more damage.
1 Like
Hit the dummy for myself for some time now and can confirm that duration seems to increase the dps. It also seems to act like more multiplier doing it this way.
For poison this makes it to somehow double-dip as it increases the damage of each dot on its own and furthermore allows an uptime of more dots which further increase the dps. Feels wrong.
We really need a DPS display for DoTs… doesn’t even have to be too accurate, but just to see whether some stat constellation is better or worse than another one.
There is one in the “other” tab, but its not that accurate
Started to created a rudimentary combat simulator in python for ailments. Results so far seem to align really well with ingame dps although I had to make some assumptions about implementional details by EHG. Especially regarding server ticks and attacks which happen inbetween.
I learned that you should never trust the character sheet regarding different types of increases! Exemplarily, Holy Aura provides 30% generic increase which is added to damage over time as well as physical damage but will only applied once for bleed ailments.
Most types of scaling are implemented so far including some skill tree passives and auras.
Still missing skill-specific (ailment application skill) temporary and global buffs like warpaths global increase and rive bleed remove scaling. As well as Manifest Strike and/or Axe Throw. Have to see if I can finish it during the following days.
I hope that in the end I can compute an average gain per affix/attribute/increase/more.