Does that mean that you should be able to just edit your character and give yourself 4LP red rings, 300 passive points and 40 points per skill, as well as edit your HP to 100 million?
It would be breaking the rules and feeling overpowered.
depending on how you define abusing itâs a legit question imo.
for me personally it wouldât hurt my enjoyment if mastery respec is in the game or isnât. but there are definitely pros and cons to both approaches.
Well. Iâm not a game designer. So I just hope devs here wonât fall into this trap of making a game uber âmeaningfulâ 
I think this sentiment brought so much sadness in the poe playerbase.
Just like any design choice, some players will like it more than others.
Despite the shallowness, D4 still has more players than any other ARPG. So clearly some people like it even when some clearly hate it.
Despite being souls-like, 35k played the EA launch of No Rest For The Wicked. So clearly some people like it even when some clearly hate it.
This will apply to every single design decision, since design decisions are what create a gameâs identity. And for some players, some of these design choices will matter more than others, and for other players it might be reversed.
So, to get back on track, some players dislike mastery respec for several reasons, primary among them is identity.
They understand that mastery respec canât simply go away and there are some legit reasons for having it.
They also know that there are ways to implement this that will still protect that character identity issue while providing the service of letting you get out of a bad choice.
But the current iteration isnât one of them.
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Well I hope there will be middle ground. I hope for something easier and more fun than poe, and now especially poe2 which is even worse chore. Tbh when I think I would have to play another warrior build to get different ascendancy makes me wanna puke (and afaik they backed out of this decision).
btw. when it comes to game design I think thatâs why original souls games shine. They are hard and challenging, but there are so many ways to go around difficulties, including exploits, runbys, shortcuts and overpowered items. That it makes the game so fun.
Thatâs a you problem. You make a mountain out of a mole hill. Iâm looking forward to if EHG is sharing numbers on how many people use this mechanic and how many people use it more then once or twice. The only people who prfit from this are blasters and thatâs it. For everyone else itâs a nice thing to have if shit hits the fan.
Mastery respecc is not convenient outside of giving you a shortcut while running down the campaign. People who are faster then others can get more money in market league. Thatâs the end of it. The fast people will still be the fast people if they change their mastery arround or not.
From my experience the biggest part of the playerbase will not be bothered by this chage at all. I talk about the silent majorty who simply plays the game without disecting it and making a fuzz about the little things.
Far more important in this whole debate is if EHG managed to make all classes fun on many different possible builds or if we have the next balance shitshow where everyone trys to play the most broken crap to have fun for 3 days and then get bored.
Mastery respecc, while I personaly have 0 need for it because I autopilot the game untill I wake up in Emp Monos, is a neat thing for people who want to play different builds and have little time or for people who messed up. Then there are the pro players who would sell their grandma if they are 2 minutes faster and then there is the rest who donât have any benefits out of it but changing their mastery for the lulz.
I couldnât care less about this topic and Iâm simply happy for the people who are in need of this waste of development time because they messed up and donât want to be hold accountable for it⌠itâs just a game so it might be okay to let it slide ^^.
Except that most people tend to follow guides and now all guides and content creators say to level as another mastery and then respec. So I imagine weâll actually have plenty of people doing that. Even if they donât come to the forums or follow any sort of media other than that.
Well time to write guides and to tell them that they are 0.2% faster for every 100 bucks they paypal me.
Outside of this I talk from my personal experience that is maybe completely wrong buuut⌠If you read more then/look for the big âAt day xyz season xyz starts!â or ânew class yay!â or âNew expension!â stuff you are outstanding. Most people simply play games and donât look up anything. For example from my knowledge everyone here is highly invested into the game because why else are they on a forum?
I know so many people who never even wrote a Steam review or even one post on steam who simply play games without any clue about Meta and guides and what. People who play the game just to play the game.
Sure there are still a lot of people who follow guides but I donât thik those are they majority of players. Sure thatâs only my experience and I might be completely wrong but all I can say is that not that much people are taking and indepth look into things or guides and just play whatever crap they come up with because of⌠fun ^^.
if you think itâs too cheap just donate the excess gold to players in need, lol
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No one is complaining about this.
Theres a difference between complaining and giving feedback that points out issues with the respecing as well as explaining why the cost is to low.
This feedback post about the gold cost is intended to give feedback on the cost and its issues. To help EHG find a middle ground to it. Which EHG said they would keep an eye on how its being used in the game as well take into account feedback on respecing mastery.
Critical feedback and complaining are two different things.
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This here is exactly why i made this feedback post.
This honestly should quell the fears. EHG is known for watching data and making changes when necessary, mid-season even. If METAs are abusing the respec, theyâll step in and correct it.
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I think this makes a lot of sense. In fact, I think EHG should do this even if they go ahead with their current mastery respecc plan. each mastery gets the first two skills and the first half of the point tree of the other two masteries, so until a character is actually able to reach that point thereâs no reason to lock them into a choice. Make all 3 masteries available to invest points in up to their half-mark the moment you get 20 points in the base class, then add a side quest to let players pick their mastery around the point in the story that they should be able to level at least one tree to the half-mark. Would give players more time to mess around with the different masteries and decide what they like the feel of, and lets EHG make the mastery base skill a bit more interesting since it is unlocked later in the game.
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I get why the devs wanted to implement this feature, however, I am not entirely sure this feature is a good idea.
Letâs say you are rushing for the ladder ranks and you see that a better mastery is ahead of you with a better build, wouldnât you just switch to the best mastery per class instead of staying at the one you already leveled upďź
I think most players would definitely change their mastery in this scenario.
i ll cut this short and just put out my suggestion.
this is a âbadge of honour issueâ rather than anything else.
at character creation screen just let these players enable a âEternalâ mode. eternal characters arent allowed to change their masteries.
heck, lets make it more meaningful. eternal characters are not allowed to respec their passive points or their skill trees either.
then there is a disconnect between player expectations and the devs. despite their best efforts to try and define it that way. for most players an acolyte dabbles in dark arts. curses, minions etc. by level 20 they have access to basic abilities of all sort of dark arts. to most players, if they want to specialize in minions, they choose necromancer subclass/mastery.
but that said, both ways of viewing masteries are not wrong. its all a matter of expectations. the devs had their own idea which clashes with most players. as for âwhy should one player allowed to change classâ thats a good point. i cant switch from acolyte to be a primalist. but that goes back to the implementation of classes. unless EHG introduced a linear class upgrade system, players will always see masteries as a specialization and thus will always expect to have the ability to switch between specializations.
for example. if i created my own game. i have a fighter class and a marauder class. the fighter class can only upgrade to void knight and the marauder can only upgrade to forge master, NO PLAYERS will even imagine to ask for a class respec. their expectations are well aligned with the devs idea of void knight and forgemaster being specific classes instead of specializations.
you may disagree or even EHG but this is a fact. this is how most players view their masteries as specializations, despite EHG having a different POV.
have you never experimented doing your own thing? have you forgotten how its like to go in blind? i dont think i need to address this point
its ironic that you know this. moto order is the base class. similar to how acolyte is the base class. its something you choose at the start. the 3 masteries/sub masteries/specializations you choose in TLI are exactly how players view masteries in LE. which are resetable.
technically it doesnt have classes, but it does have specializations. in case you forgot. undecemberâs zodiac tree has players starting from starter zodiac trees that are general but as players dump points they eventually unlock more of the tree (similar to GD/LE passive tree). but where it differs is, once you unlock the advanced zodiac constellations, youâre âheavily encouragedâ to choose specialized constellations. which are essentially masteries. in LE terms, you start of classless, then later only you get to choose your class and specialization. its all hidden behind the advanced constellations. i cant blame you for not knowing and one can argue theyâre still not classes. but then again what are âspecialized passive trees that lock you out of othersâ? they are essentially classes/specializations.
true. because its a self made issue. its similar to hardcore players being upset that softcore exists.
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There is no need to do anything else, just add âTrue masteryâ (similar to âDeathlessâ) to character stat sheet and to the ladder. Add filtering by this stat in ladder. Nothing else is needed. You want to compete with other people who didnât respec? Just filter ladder screen by âTrue masteryâ.
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yeah that could work too. this way players dont even need to select anything else.
You can think about it as much as you want, this is single-player/co-op game and this will have no impact on anything except racing. Only interaction with other players is trading which is terrible anyway.
I understand what youâre trying to say there, but itâs not just that.
Best way I can exemplify this is why D3 and campaign skip. Iâve always enjoyed campaign. But in D3, I never played campaign at season start. Why? Because adventure mode gets you to level 70 in 1-2h and campaign requires 10h. So that feels like a waste of time, even if I do like the campaign.
However, if adventure mode would take 6-7h to reach the same spot as campaign, Iâd be fine with it.
I donât mind feeling a little inefficient with my preferred playstyle. But I do mind feeling very inefficient because it feels like I want to play the game in a way the game doesnât want me to.
Likewise for mastery respec. If the attrition for respeccing mastery makes it so that itâs somewhat better to swap mastery at some point but not a lot better, everything is fine. I just donât want to feel like the game is trying to force me to play in a way I donât want to, like D3 did with adventure mode.
This is honestly just a presentation issue. If you chose your mastery at character creation from the start, this would have never been an issue, tbh.
So rather than pick a Sentinel at creation, you would have chosen to be a Paladin from the start.
Itâs too late for that now, anyway.
And I do disagree with your premise simply because D&D exists. Your fighter can specialize as Battle Master, Champion, Eldritch Knight, etc, and no one expects to be able to respec. Likewise for all other classes.
Again, why would mastery respec be any different?
Iâve gone blind on a mastery before. There are plenty of different builds available in each mastery. Pretty much all of them can play all the archetypes (ranged, melee, minion, etc).
Mastery respec just increases your build options by 3 times. Much like having class respec would increase your build options by 15 times.
But you make it seem like you canât experiment if youâre stuck to just one mastery. You still can. Mastery or class respec just increases the available options
We again fall back to the presentation issue, then. If you chose your mastery at the start of character creation, this wouldnât be an issue.
Many players in LE have always felt that mastery is your class. You just happen to choose it later. The devs have said this in the past as well.
This is actually not true. It has an impact on the game identity as well. LE was a game that catered (quite heavily even) to altoholics. Now it isnât anymore. That alone is enough to shift the playerbase (for every design decision, some players wonât like it and will leave, some will like it and join).
Also, even though itâs a mostly single player game, players will always inevitably compare themselves to what others are achieving. Thatâs why meta builds exist in the first place. Itâs because they see that someone is very strong with build X and will all flock to it, to also feel strong.
Never seen or felt that way, for me LE identity is fully accessible items. Items that players can easily understand and craft. Also, idea that the players can build their own build without guide, but that one is a lie, itâs just easier than PoE. Second identity point for LE is accessibility and experimentation, so complete opposite of your view. You can respec the whole character for free, basically. You can reset your skill allocation for literally free and also get minimum level, so your newly specced skill starts at level 10.
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