Agreed. Mana leech is a slippery slope. Just to add to that, it would need to use the same mechanics that exist for health leech otherwise it would just be silly. So it carries the risk of completely trivializing mana, or destroying the health leech mechanic for everybody else. Personally I don’t think it is the right solution.
Another option would be to make focus not suck to use.
no, manareg is a prefix, no higher end build wants to invest in it if they do not have to just because of the few percent loss of dps, it is better dps to use mana strike than to invest in mana regen.
Even if mana regen prefixes were DOUBLED they would not compete with mana strike for mana per second, and even if they did, mana hungry builds would intentionally run BOTH because of just how fast they would run out(as it is possible to get some skills to 150 or more per cast and to cast them a lot of times - shatter strike in particular removes your whole mana bar in less than a second even if you invest in mana).
Currently if you get ALL the mana regen prefixes and ALL the passives for mana regen, you get less than half as much as hitting with mana strike a single time. And hitting with mana strike a single time is nowhere near enough to cover for the costs of higher cost builds. I am not asking for mana regen to be better than mana strike, I want it to be comparable when you actually go out of your way to get all the related passives and affix slots, as in when you pay a massive opportunity cost for it, you should actually get something worthwhile.
But currently even when you pay that opportunity cost you get almost nothing for it
Again if it was worthwhile I’d give a shit about some % dmg if I can spamm the skills. I intentionaly said worthwhile and no numbers because it needs to be at bonkers levels of efffectiveness to make high cost skills useable more frequently.
At the end of the day I think there are a lot of things to balance to make high cost skills feel good. First of all is the cost of said skills. I think it’s hard to find a sweetspot or EHG has other plans then most players do ^^.
Good post man, even if you retort every damn thing I said well
Does EHG in fact want the yawn inducing Diablo 3/4 system? If so, the game is very inconsistent in its execution. You can spin to win which is 100% dps uptime for not cost with the correct node setup, and I had a voidnight that had a few on cooldown nukes but had an attack that actually dented mobs in the meantime.
I never ran into this issue with Acolyte/Rogue/Primalist, but perhaps that is just because I havent put enough time into the classes to find the issue.
The easiest, least invasive option is like a lot of us have said, rebalancing cost. And yea, I had one setup that would cast meteor on crit or some shit (ofc triggered spells use mana), so not only were I dropping turds from space that almost never hit things when I needed them to, I had so many awkward moments against bosses where I am whacking them with a stick just so I can play the game again.
I have no problems with this, being a caster should be exactly that. Standing in place holding with a constipation animation looking you have dementia to regain mana or hitting mobs with your stick as a magic user just dont mesh. Mana strike makes sense for melee Mage’s, but then again, I dont recall ever having crippling mana issues with my last spellblade build. At the very least, make a gainer for casters that fits the archetype and perhaps is useful beyond mana gain.
This is exactly how I feel. The Big spells don’t feel big enough for their cost. It’s not even that mana Regen is necessarily bad. The skills feel bad even with generators. The only 2 skills that I have been happy with were Void cleave and Judgements 2% more DMG per mana spent. These skills have huge more multipliers and most other big spenders don’t even get close. I every time I try to build something like this, in the back of my head I know that I would get 3x the DPS with 1/2 the jank from just spamming something like frost claw or Lightning blast or rive.
The only game I’ve ever seen get BIG right was 3.11-3.13 PoE when slams were meta. That is the feeling I want from LE’s big cost skills.
I think one of the issues with this methodology is that the big spells didn’t feel like big spells. They just felt like spells with long cooldowns and/or were cost-prohibitive. This may have changed, but I do recall there being a complaint about the lack of ‘oomph’ or impact of the (supposed) big-bang spells.
You are supposed to use mana builder skills in this game. Last Epoch combat was designed for you to have a mana builder (zero mana cost ability) on your right-click. Mana regen stacking isn’t intended to replace mana builder abilities. Every class has several mana builder abilities. Most classes get 3 by default. You can identify which skills are mana builders if they have zero mana cost … And you can spec some skills into becoming mana builders.
Yes there is logic in that. And probably is reasonable.
However until builds that cost 0 mana exist/or you can maintain without a generator, where you can just spam 1-2 abilities endlessly without any damage loss, in fact you gain a lot of damage by doing so people will always lean towards that.
There needs to be an incentive to use a certain skill, when another is just flat out better. That is why mana regen can be very useful.
All other reasons are stated around this thread, and I’m sure more will pop out.
i get that and fair enough. the problem for me however is how much faster 0 mana generators can get the mana back in a few hits for example while iam channeling with focus which i stated a few times, on TOP of my mana regen stacking i do use focus a mana regenarator and those higher cost skills with a trigger still feel bad.
that doesnt feel right to me with such heavy investment