Despite investing heavily in mana regeneration for both my gear and skill tree, it still feels insufficient. Even with close to 90% mana regen, my mana pool feels inadequate, and I often have to use focus for mana regen after clearing a pack. Single target fights are even more frustrating, as I have to use focus way too many times.
While I have turned off extra mana options for most skills, I still trigger one more skill once in a while. Even with close to 400 mana and flame rush costing only 15 mana, investing in mana regeneration does not seem to be worth it.
Despite the flame ward mana regen passives giving a lot of mana regen, it still feels punishing to invest so much in something and not feel the benefits.
Btw: My flame ward gives 100% increased mana regen on top of my other investment while active. I have 2 stacks of it + i can trigger it with frostwall. And STILL i have mana regen issues. I guess i drop the heavy investment since i barely feel the difference with way less investment. I also use mana efficiency on every single skill.
Ok fine i have to use focus a lot, which is not how i want to play it but ok.
Focus gives another 100% increased mana and some other great mana benefits. And yet i barely can get to full mana 388 when iam fully out of mana. Despite having 380+ increased mana regen if flame ward is up. But even with 280+ it should be regened within seconds which is not. My build plays cluncky as hell because of this.
Could you please look into this EHG?
Base mana regen is 8. 100% increased gives you another 8. Flame Ward lasts 4 seconds (assuming you invested in duration) so thatâs 32 mana back. Assuming you have the 30% efficieny, Flame Ward triggered by Frost Wall costs⌠48 mana. Itâs something you run when you have excess mana generation.
Idk what youâre playing, but Iâm assuming itâs a runemaster build, in which case you should try to use your Frost Wall to cut your invocation costs by 60% as much as you can. Also Mana Strike is faster than Focus.
xyz of nothig is still nothing. The game is build arround a builder/spender mechanic and I think there is no build that can make a pure spender playstyle happen. You have to balance your income and your cost. Sure thatâs oldschool and in todays gaming of PoE walking sim or D4 almost instant refill caster ressource something that suprises players but it is what it is ^^.
This game approaches mana diferently than others you might have experienced: mana management is meant to be a problem you need to solve within your build - and more often than not, âincreased mana regenerationâ is not the answer, as it only scales small base value (not percentage of mana pool).
Typically you want to look for ways to
reduce the skill mana cost - some skills have built in nodes, and there are cost reduction affixes on certain gear.
refund mana spent by a skill - some skills have built in nodes, or you can find effective combos (e.g. teleport + big spell)
incorporate mana generator - mana strike, rune bolt, etcâŚ
use mana regeneration to iron out small deficiencies
then why is mana regen in the game in the first place? ofc having to solve mana is part of the game but when you heavily invest into solving it and get unsatisfying results i understand the frustration. this just limits build variety.
Depending on the build mana regen can solve all your problems and you do not need a generator. I like it that it is posssible with high investment.
My Freezer Sorc which is running ~700 corruption monoliths currently has 22 mana regeneration in the character screen (without the the Flame Ward buff) and it feels great. Walking around casting orbital static orb once in a while and refreshing ice barrage when needed. Teleporting around. Freezing and killing all stuff while never using Focus
I agree with the sentiment. I wish there was a way to invest into mana regen in a meaningful way. I remember trying an failing to build mana regen on my sorc, and then sadly resigning myself to having to use focus every so often, which which really sucked and made the build a lot less enjoyable.
I guess the reason they have not done something like that is that it is very difficult to strike the correct balance where mana does not get trivialized by most builds. Still, I wish they explored flat mana regen affixes a bit more, maybe as a unique of some sorts.
Out of the 4 this is the worst way to manage mana, lategame almost all builds end up going for one of the other options and ignoring mana regen entirely.
Mana regen can be fine for general clearing but when you come up against a large HP boss or a situation where you are continuously fighting(arena) you really see its issues. As you level up your attack/cast speed gets higher and you get more attacks per second, mana regen simply cannot keep up since it ticks every second. Now you might say this is only an issue for fast attacking skills and cooldown skills wouldnât have this issue. But most cooldown builds would use a generator anyway to enhance their main skill or to build up armor shred/debuffs. In fast paced fights, waiting for mana to slowly generate is pretty bs.
Mana regen has the added bonus of taking up multiple slots(and requiring decent rolls) to even reach a decent value. It is just annoying to build around, it was way easier to farm 2x T7 - throwing mana cost rings for my Electrify javadin than to push for T5 mana regen along with other decent stats on all gear.
Actually it forces build diversity. If you could easily have enough mana to only cast the biggest spells, thatâs the only builds that would exist. Mana as a resource is what is being used to balance builds. Mana and cooldowns are the only way to force people to diversify their builds, and there is a ton of variety because of it.
Mana may be used to balance builds but currently every build that consumes mana has to use certain ultra specific skills - even those builds are not running mana regen because it doesnât really do much, and you must remember that mana regen is a PREFIX, even if mana regen was twice as much as it was now, it would still not be used in every high mana build just because it takes up a slot that can be used for more damage.
For perspective, the highest that can be reached with mana regen(according to the build planner) is 38, and that is WITH every single mana regen node and a ton of int(so as to trigger the doubled effect of a certain node) and WITH the maximum t5 roll.
This may sound like a lot, but base meteor costs 53, Volcanic orb costs 70, Glacier costs 62, a lot of runic invokes cost above 30, static orb costs 38, Ice barrage costs 50 and those are only BASE costs.
Meanwhile the use of mana strike can generate 81 mana in a single hit, thus making it so far superior to stacking mana regeneration or even any other means of generating mana, that there it is essentially guarenteed to take up the specialisation slot
as of now you either can ignore mana through low or zero cost ability spam or are forced to pick skills like focus/ mana strike, which limits the use of other possible utility skills which can enable builds. IMO investing heavily in mana reg should be competetive to using other means of mana gain, since, like others mentioned already, it is a high cost to give up 5 prefixes and a lot passive points.
If mana regen could be built to trivialize mana costs, all builds would do that and the meta build would be all the same skills specced the same. Right now, there are builds that use free spells or other ways to gain mana to cast big spells sometimes. That is more diversity in builds than what would be had with the single meta build.
What I think could be done though, is make big spender skills more worthwhile to cast so infrequently. Or give the big spender skills more options to be much cheaper at the cost of the skill being much weaker.
This kind of absoulte statements are generally false; really, it depends on the level of investment and the specifics of what needs to be done to achieve sufficient levels of mana regen.
Just as an extreme example, if achieving enough mana regen to trivialize mana costs required you to use 2 4x1 idols, not all builds could afford to get it, because it would lock you out of using most class-specific idols.
The same would happen if mana regen was bound to a unique, say a catalyst, then getting mana regen would e a considerable investment.
Well that is my whole problem. I did balanced it, i did way more thats my exact complaint that despite investing so much it doesnt seem to be worth.
Also i never mentioned i wanted this game or build to be a pure spender⌠please read my post. Why the heck would i even invest that much if i expected this to be an pure spender, that comment feels a bit disrespectful/off since i never mentioned that.
This is already do with literally all my skills with every point ive got.
I also did this.
I wont use mana strike. I found it strange people advice me to use other skills, than the problem seems to be focus i guess. Why advice to use something else when Focus clearly is a skill for mana regain.
Use mana regen is literally the whole post. Thats overflowing in my build.
The affixes on gear is a good tip though. Thanks i will try that instead of mana regeneration. I cant help but find it strange however that mana regen stacking doesnt seem to cut it despite heavy investment.
This is my whole point. Iam getting tips to do other things while my whole point is about mana regeneration feeling like its not worth it.
So what do you use as the generator?
I barely had mana problems with mana strike etc but with focus and just mana regen stacking feels bad. Also how big whas your mana pool?
Having a big mana pool also helps i know that, but it still doesnât explain why mana regen stacking feels so bad in my case. Thats a seperate thing from the mana pool.
This is exactly my feeling. Iam literally feel like i have to make a different build because of this just because of mana despite insane investment. People say like its not D4 or POE which sounds like an excuse to me for the meh mana regeneration.
I dont want it to feel like D4 or POE but that doesnt mean i have to drop even more investment without even knowing if that finally will be enough. It feels like almost half of all my stats is in mana regen and iam not far off. Even with foucs it feels bad since it still takes long to get my mana back with focus.
When some people try to âwin an argumentâ on here sometimes they just throw things like its not D4 or POE in just to dismiss the case. Its kinda gross in my opinion. Especially since i didnt care having to invest a lot. I just expected that that would be enough which it isnt THAT is my problem with it.
My friend, please read i have to literally use focus within some packs or after every pack. So for me its even worse atm than the 0 cost mana regenator builds and i played those builds. You can get your mana back within seconds while i have to channel for a pretty long time with Focus a lot of times⌠so stop saying iam trivialize mana costs and stop acting like iam not using other mana regenerators. Iam using FLAME WARD as a mana regenerator with 100% mana regen while active and on top of my big mana regen stacks in the passives and some gear i use FOCUS also a mana regen resource on top AGAIN on my big mana regen stack and it still feels terrible. That is my whole problem with this mechanic. read the post better please.
Itâs better to put something meaningful as well. There is a reason mana regeneration should work early game and late game as it is offering variety.
First ask yourself what is mana?
Mana is a limiter, like life. Every game has these limiters that serve as rules of the game. Like chess but far simpler. Having this limiter regenerate faster allows you to press more spenders/spam more skills without the need to stop or use another source that gives you mana. This is massive early game, and can be useful late game (sometimes).
So ugh yeah, it is important. If it wasnât, it should be removed from the game. Thatâs up to the devs. Every game has useless stats and affixes, maybe this is one of them, beats me what they want with mana regeneration.
I would take high dmg skill spamming every time because it would be more dmg in the end then being forced into a builder/spender kind of playstyle. If Iâm able to cast Volcanic Orb for example 24/7 with the most dmg setup itâs more dmg then casting spell X and refill mana with spell Y.
There are classes that work pretty good with the system in place and there are classes that have to walk an extra mile.
Thatâs why I never take this approach. None of my builds (While I play totem spriggan mostly because of fun) i ever played in the years Iâm arround had mana issues. I always build more balanced aproaches with 0 downtime rather then big spender downtime builds. Sure big booms are fun but if the game almost forbids this playstyle I donât start to go down this rabbithole.
If you increase the manareg by a little you end up there because it spirals out of control. You dont have to mention things that obviously will happen anyway.
Maybe we shouldâve asked what skill you use and what manacosts are coming with them tbh. Most of the âManaregâ posts in the past came from new people who simply havenât done their homework and we all mightâve jumped to the wrong conclusion.
So if you donât mind make a build setup over here Last Epoch Build Planner an people will most likely help you with direct tips to your setup.
You specifically talk about more than one current playstyle (0 cost builds and generator builds). If buffing mana regen to the point of trivializing mana costs, there would be 1 build.
While you mention using Focus, the thread is not ABOUT Focus. You wrote;
So unless you donât understand your own framing, this thread is about mana regen not being good enough and you would like EHG to look into it. Implying you would like it to be buffed, potentially to the point of trivializing mana costs. (Which is the typical desire for those requesting mana regen buffs)
thats alot of assumptions. the only people talking about trivializing mana cost in this thread are those against buffs to mana reg. nobody here said lets trivialize mana! and as already mentioned, giving up 5 prefixes and lots of passives is anything but trivializing.
