Mana Regen for high mana build is not enough

Anything past 400 mana is a pain to get adequate regen. Give us flat regen affix shards and add Max mana scaling nodes to regen skills.

Don’t bet on it. They want us to care about mana and not be able to gear up to the point of totally ignoring it.

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Have you heard of Focus?

Its horrible and massively anti-fun to use, but the devs insist you use it :smiley:


I have 180% increased regen on gear, every Mage/Sorc mana regen passive node AND full mana recovery nodes on focus and it still takes up to 15 seconds while focusing to regen to full. There’s a difference between investment and simply not working up to scale.


Yeah, I get your point. Increasing the mana pool is nice for a longer sustain in fights. But since theres no scaling with your max mana in any recovery mechanics, after the fight it takes longer to prepare for the next.

Usually when I use focus on a build, I spec into the mana burst nodes and only channel it until the burst procs. I then proceed on the map until it is off cd and channel again till the burst procs.

The thing with mage is that it is designed to be balanced more with mana than with skill cd. You are able to spit out meteors fast until you have negative mana. The you need to recover.

And people tend to play that way. Spam a skill until oom then recover to 100%, then spam again and so on.

In most cases like normal mono echoes spamming the high mana cost skills is overkill and isn’t necessary.

I try to manage mana myself by not let it drop to low by not spamming the high mana spenders. Playing mage feels better to me this way 90% of the time. Only in bossfights this doesn’t work too well as I somehow start spamming everything when I see a long healthbar that doesn’t go down instantly :grin:.

LE goes a different route with mana than other games. In PoE mana is a mechanic that gets trivialised in lategame. There’s no build out there that gets oom during a fight at that point.

Sorcerer feels worst un that regard. You can have similar issues on other classes as well, but in most cases you can work around that with your build as there are some mana recovery mechanics.

For me it’s ok that mage feels and plays different compared to other classes. I don’t want to see a passive like “gain mana when hittung an enemy with lightning blast, fireball,…”

Instead it would be nice to have mana recovery being increased with mana pool. This doesnt need to be a base mechanic, but maybe as some kind of passive in the second half of the sorc passive tree.

Powerful abilities are designed to be balanced by having a high mana cost to keep you from spamming them. This is different from some other games in the genre where you can reach a point that mana doesn’t exist. They don’t want that here.

If you’re blowing through your mana such that you’re having to stop to channel Focus all the time, you’re doing the exact opposite of what you’re intended to do. You simply need to play differently.

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No, that’s a choice the player makes. If they want to spam high cost skills until they run out of mana then either wait till it regens or use a generator skill, that’s an entirely valid decision. To say “this is not what the devs intended” is just wrong.

Nah I disagree, see that would be a valid response if meteor was an earth shattering spell that did 10x the damage of a lightning blast.

But instead it deals like 2.5x the damage at 20x the cost.

Mage currently feels like crap to play with “big spenders” because big spenders in this game are weak as can be. its just side stepped on other classes better because they have good mana recovery methods and their spenders usually cost say 10-30 mana instead of potentially costing hundreds of mana.

Sorc has a design space of “big mana, big cost” but because they also dont have “big recovery” they are just useless unless they bypass that with a gimmick like the popular glacier build that enables the big mana spender stuff while having mana gain in its tree that scales with pool size.

Focus wouldnt feel nearly so bad if the burst gave a tiny bit more mana, and the spells mana costs were massively toned down. Someone needs to explain to me why Volcanic orb costs what it does lol.

Also imo because of there not being a global mechanic for sorc that rewards a big mana pool, big mana pool is an entirely fluff stat outside of the niche like glacier who does have one.

Having 500 mana vs 100 is pointless when it comes to damage up time since all that matters is recovery unless you are killing the target by having a 5x as long burst window.

Also just to clarify, I dont think mana regen passives/affixes need to be changed. Mage just needs their own unique mana mechanics be it through focus, passives, or something. Their mana economy right now is doodoo.


I don’t think it is. I’m pretty sure they’ve said they don’t want people to be running around one button spamming the highest damage skills, and one of the ways they try to prevent that is through giving them higher mana costs. I think it’s reasonable to infer that “spam high cost spell until you’re out of mana then twiddle your thumbs with mana recovery” is not a playstyle they’d intend, or want to encourage. Cuz ultimately I agree with that part of OP - That’s not fun.

I don’t play Sorc so I don’t know how they scale with points/passives/gear in practice, but just eyeballing base numbers I have a lot of trouble swallowing that (Volcanic Orb definitely though, wtf). LB costs 3 mana and has 21 base damage with 100% added damage scaling. Meteor costs 56 mana (18x) and has 180 base damage (8.5x) with 900% added damage scaling. How does LB outpace Meteor that badly when it starts so far behind?

Having more mana should mean that you have more breathing room before you hit empty. If you’re blowing your whole pool on, say, two casts of Big Beefy Skill, there’s no space for your mana to handle situations that need more than two casts of Big Beefy Skill in a short span. Likewise, there’s no buffer to take advantage of stretches where you aren’t/don’t need to cast Big Beefy Skill as often. There’s also technically Wisdom but 3% per 100 mana is pretty garbo.

That was exactly my point. If tje plaulyer wants to use high cost skills you can but then you either need to use a generator or wait for the mana to regen.

Why? If the player wants to do that it’s their choice. What they can’t then do is bitch about having to wait.

You can spam it & it’s always there when you want it. Plus it can chain to the same target giving it a x6 multiplyer (original hit + 4 chains), and has some decent modifiers in it’s skill tree.

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I feel like we agree? The fact that it sucks to do that and they don’t want to make it easier to do that… I’d infer as being a disincentive to do that, as in, it’s not intended that people do that. It can be unintended without being actively blocked outright.


Its all in the trees honestly. Meteor has a 35% more, a 50% more with a penalty and 80% more situational damage multipliers, and has a poor relationship with cast speed because you are shackled more to recovering your mana pool then actually casting the meteors.

Even if we are not assuming single target damage which LB wins on a landslide thanks to single target chaining being frankly broken, it just has so many more vectors for scaling its damage through cast speed and not needing to be locked to mana recovery which is sorcs weakest point.

Then we have to consider factors outside of just damage too, hitting 6 meteors then being oom means you spend however long it takes to recharge that mana not leeching, not getting ward etc.

Meanwhile the LB will still be attacking, getting ward, applying debuffs, buffs etc.

like tbh id much rather have meteor do less damage but be more spammable. id gladly take meteor mana cost cut in half and have its damage cut in half. it would make it so much of a better skill because you can actually use on cast mechanics and build more around focus burst as a mechanic.

edit: Heck add the lower mana cost, lower damage as a passive investment in meteor itself, let me choose to make it cost more or less, thats sorcs thing man!!!


“I don’t play Sorc.”… Then why are you even in this discussion? I don’t understand why you are defending your stance so heavily when you haven’t even played the class. Seriously, try a sorc with a big mana pool and then give us your opinions. I didn’t think it was a problem at all until empowered monoliths. Also, I am using the Fractured Crown unique which uses mana to defend a big portion of ehp. In addition you say that EHG is intending to punish us for spamming abilities by waiting exponentially longer to recover mana yet Acolyte and Lich use HP as a resource to spam abilities but they have 0 issues because you can scale HP regen, leech, on hit. It’s so easy for them but I don’t hear you complaining about how they need to nerf it because they don’t want us to spam.

Gee, I dunno. Let’s review your original post, which I replied to:

Title: Mana Regen for High Mana Build is Not Enough
Body: Anything past 400 mana is a pain to get adequate regen. Give us flat regen affix shards and add Max mana scaling nodes to regen skills.

Weird. I don’t see any mention of Sorcerer in there. :thinking:

Now let’s review my second comment:

Weird. A broad, general statement about the entire game.

It’s almost like you’re raising concepts that are not specific to Sorcerers and just using one as an example, and what I said stands regardless. You are trying to spam high mana cost abilities, can’t do it, and want more mana recovery so that you can ignore the high mana costs. That’s not a playstyle they’ve said they want to support. They want mana to matter. The only problem for you to raise is if those high cost mana abilities do not do enough damage to justify their cost.

That isn’t what I said, but if you want to read “hard hitting abilities are balanced around having a high mana cost to prevent them from being spammed” as “they punish you!” then you definitely can’t have a useful conversation here.

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I don’t - I concider any build that needs to actually wait more than a second or two to recover mana to be weak, because there are plenty of builds that nuke bosses or speed clear monos that have zero mana issues.

For mana intensive builds to work they need efficient ways to generate mana - and regen is not one of them.

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Focus is horrible on many, many levels.

The only way to regen huge mana pools is to take the Null Profusion node. But its awfully designed, because it requires you to be on negative mana. Thus you are forced to use huge cost ability when you are low on mana, which immediately puts you into huge risk by disabling your teleport because you are in negative mana. If you are not in deep negative mana you risk your natural regen to bump your mana over 0, in which case your Focus gives you absolutely nothing and you get to enjoy the 12 sec CD that comes with Null Profusion.

When we are talking small/medium mana pool of around 200-400 null profusion is garbage. This leaves the small burst, which basically locks you into doing intermittent 1 sec channels very often, which is AWFUL it terms of gameplay.

To top it all off you are forced to use a horrible skill on a class that already has 2 mandatory skills (movement skill & Flame Barrier)

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Ignorant and defensive. We don’t take your opinions seriously because you obviously aren’t serious about improving this game. Take it to reddit if you want a voice bro.

What he means is the request for more mana regen would be going against the intent of the design, which is for you to run out of mana.

This isn’t about improving, this is about intent of design. They want you to run out of mana. That’s why there are skills that cost zero mana. You are not supposed to use only the big spells.

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Yup. Do you know what the problem with that is? Volatile Reversal exists :rofl: . Sentinels have very high end mana stacking builds and they are allowed to refill their 800-900 mana pools instantly, but Mage isn’t :rofl: .

The entire 1 clicking bosses, screen wiping, absolutely hilarious Judgment mana stacking builds relies on the character to unleash a nuke with its entire mana pool, click Volatile Reversal and instantly get it back up, effectively removing any need for mana regen.
So please try and justify how Mage doesn’t have anything even remotely close, when its supposed to be the caster archetype?