Playing at the end boss, had two tries on him, died to random oneshots where i thought i was out of range. Now after GRINDING like hell and dying to random onshotting crap, i’m down to eight or nine echo, mind you the boss spawns at twentyfive pluss. The mechanic of losing this much echos upon death is so frustrating i actually nearly uninstalled the game after rage-quitting with alt+f4. Good game, but this is just stupid, if i want to grind and farm like a bloody fool, i can just bend over and get back at paragon farming in d3…
It’s a lot “better” than it used to be when you’d be reset to zero after a death. There has to be some consequence for failing.
Since there is no other death penalty currently in place(which will most likely come on top of this), i think it is not that bad. (They already did reduce the loss of echoes drastically with 2 patches)
Now the question is if all of this “random oneshots” are some mechancis you did not understand completely yet or if there is some stuff unclear or unfair.
Do you mind sharing on what mechanic exactly you died? Especially deaths on boss fights are very easy to digest. Deaths on trash mobs might be not so obvious though.
And on the general sentiment of losing echoes, what exactly would you want from that system? Not losing any progress at all? Trying the boss infinitly until defeating it?
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Dying to the boss is fine, misscalculating the range of the ring of doom is on me. Dying to mobs that oneshots you from out off screen isn’t that fun tbh. I know get good, don’t die is the obvious answer and i could farm for another 100 hours to get gear so i can take 50% less hits and more resists ect. Tho fighting echos over and over and over to get to the boss is realy tideous —> in my opinion <—. Since we already are copying other games, why don’t we get 5 tries on a boss before resetting the echos by 10 or so. how is that for a sugestion?
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Which mobs would that be? I know there are alot of mobs with very long range, but most of those mechanics are no “one-shotmechanics”. Most “one-shotmechanics” are generally the ones very good telegraphed or close range.
No, i am not the dude that tell you to git gud. I genuinely want to help people succeeding and enjoying this game. That’s why i wanted to have a little bit more information.
Depending on how far you already are into the game, usually two of the big factors that leads to inconsitent damage income, hence to “unexpected one-shots” are Glancing Blow and Crit Avoidance. If you have not 100% you have none. Those are the first few goals you should reach for defensively on every build generally(crit avoidance can be less of a priority on tankeir builds and more a luxury thing)
I wouldn’t say LE is “copying” anything, it just takes alot of inspiration from similar games, but there is almost nothing that is literally copied.
Having multiple tries on bosses before losing progress is a good suggestion. I think alot of peopel would like that implementation. Me personally wouldn’t like it as a baseline mechanics, but as a optional thing.
For example when choosing the Boss Quest Echo you will have the option for X tries before losing progress, but you would get either less loot or even more progress loss when failing all attempts. Anything with a upside to not choosing those multiple attempts.
This i do not have at 100% on this char Lev 86 Void sorcerer, i do have it on my Necro so i know how that works (Unity - d3;)
As i’m currently not ingame i can’t remember their name, some pestilence spewing fly and some holy fire from the skies firing mob. (hard to see that one is standing in that with fire ward up btw…
Random quote here, i just wanted to rage vent, but, nooo, you had to make me type a wall and actually think this over in a proper manner, no fun you… 
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I’d prefer to get multiple attempts on Quest Echo bosses, even if it means they are harder, as long as the fight starts completely over, so you still have to complete it start to finish in one “life”.
It’s a bit frustrating to get a boss, not know exactly what you are in for because you’ve not done it before and die to something, and then have to work your way back up to even fighting it. The dying part itself is fine assuming the mechanic can be learned and dodged/geared for, but simply dying once and having to grind back to it feels lame.
If, say, you aren’t able to finish it after 4-5 runs, I can see losing a couple of echos is probably fair. Once the game can also be played online, this can also help to alleviate concerns about lag/latency deaths a bit.
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If you die on boss, in my opinion, you should be guaranteed to have another shot at it in 4 echoes.
There is nothing more frustating than dieing to a boss you try for the time, losing 4 echoes and having to run 10 echoes to have another shot at it, making it even buffier because you had only bad mods in those 10 echoes and/or (if you are like me) tried to gamble the boss fight every single echo and only end with uber hard mod.
If you die in the middle of the mono run I don’t mind such a mechanism but for boss death that second try should be at least garanteed, maybe only once I don’t know.
So not having 100% GB can lead to spikey damage and unexpected one-shots, you should fix that. Next step is reaching 100% Crit Avoidance, since it also loweres they spikyness of incoming damage and as soon as you have 100% you can freely take any crit modifier in MoF without significant disadvantage.
I am pretty sure that the Flies and Bettle thigns that spit don’t hit you across the whole screen. Their basic attack is indeed dangerous if they are ignored, but usually they need to come very close.
I think you are refering to the Lightmage’s Meteor Skill, which is indeed very dangerous and they tend to use that across the whole screen, BUT for this mechanics you don’t even need to see the mob casting it or from which “direction” the mob is coming. So while this can be annoying to deal with, when there are mobs you havn’t spotted yet, you are still able to avoid them. I think their effect on the ground is pretty clear and is not outshined by other effects.
That’s ok, i mean you did not insult anyone or spread toxicity. Having moments of great frustration sometimes is part of the experience. You might learn from some stuff and try to make it better or if there is something you really want to talk about you can come here to the forum and have a healthy discussion with other people.
There are lots of people here on the forum that really want to help other people struggeling with certain things or not fully understanding everything.
He’s German, he can’t help it.
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Jawohl!
I should probably have an emotional response to that, but I’m British & I’ll have a cup of tea instead.
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Cliché fulfilled!
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105% glancing now, if this doesn’t improve stuff i’ll get the longboat out and start throwing pebbles at everyone i meet…
Well that’s already an improvement. If you keep struggeling versus specific mobs, feel free to make a new thread with some more specific outliens of your stats/build. Maybe we can help you succeed.
Tbh i think that we should not be reliant on glancing blow to be able to play the game, it seems weird and silly imo. That said, this character is in it’s own way a typical glass-cannon build. But i guess all is possible if we farm enough, i lost 1/3 of my damage getting this stat change. Need further testing.
LE is just balanced around getting the 100% GB, very similar to PoE or Grim Dawn requiring you to max out all types of resistances. That’s called gear affix taxes.
Defense is king in LE, not just GB.
Main Damage comes from good synergies and skill spec trees. All the damage on gear is mostly luxury and for the end-endgame min-maxing.
But as i stated previously, just test things out now and if you have any more problem feel free to make a new thread and ask again, maybe we can find a way to bring up your damage again, if you find that lacking now.
Thanks everyone for the feedback, rant is over and i’m moving onwards with new stats, just have to adapt again.
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I really hope they don’t change it. I think the balance is right for a death penalty.
Just want to compare to PoE Sirus boss. He is a massive grind to get to. And for new players they most likely won’t kill him first go, or second. Which means they have a huge grind to do again.
At least with MoF the quest chance has a stacking % chance to appear. Almost giving us a loaded die. I like the fact the game makes you think about your build and how to improve skill as a player to dodge high damaging abilities.
Afaik in PoE you get several attempts to beat the boss, not only one.
Learning boss mechanics is fine, when you have the opportunity to do so. If you have to grind your way back, people lose their incentive to beat that boss.
Once you get the pattern you can beat every boss, regardless of your gear.
The problem that I see is
- Bossfights trivialise your gear progression because the attacks hit so hard that it doesn’t matter if you have 1800 eHp or 500. Avoidance is key. Now it’s always the players fault, if he dies.
- If you manage to learn the pattern, the bossfights are easy. Some people start beating bosses naked with no points in their skilltrees. This is possible because of 1.
- The only method to make it not too easy for the player is by slowing his ability to learn the patterns by restricting consecutive attempts.
After weeks have passed and people defend “skillful” boss mechanics, I still want gear check mechanics.
Instead of having all these oneshot mechanics I want a more consistent damage output of bosses that can be countered by a combination of skill and gear. Not every attack has to be 100% avoidable and 100% lethal. There should be also attacks that defenitely cannot be avoided and need a certain defense rating, to prevent the naked kills.
I’d bet money, all the 24/7 players get bored by this mechanics very fast, because they already know the boss mechanics and patterns and can do bosses blindfolded without gear. Don’t know if this attempt adds a lot if longevity to the game.
It’s more an artificial roadblock to slow player progress for first timers. Too much frustration potential for my taste.
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